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Author Topic: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)  (Read 23836 times)
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HongKongGoolagong
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« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2019, 03:42:59 PM »

The "Dylan Miller" pieces are a collaboration between John Doran and Luke Turner to my knowledge.
What is your documentation on this?

Doran on social media saying that the pieces were his and Turner's attempts at self-accountability, having given promotion to a lot of this area of music in the past. And I guess being aware that some associations won't look good to future employers, corporations etc. Seeing as he is about to launch a BBC series New Weird Britain, Turner has a first novel out via a multinational publisher etc.

The Skullflower recent LPs on Nashazphone are still available via advertising links on The Quietus website. The clicks on this series have probably saved the website's financial plight single handedly.

Magick defends itself, so does money.
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FreakAnimalFinland
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« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2019, 03:58:44 PM »

I don't see why someone should be expected to still defend and refuse to explain some dumb teenage prank decades later.

I dont see what there is to apologize for? Considering that apart  name, there is no wp music in it. Just juicy sex noise. Isn’t that basically rough category where one could still file Many of his works?

It is possible that some people respect apologies. I come from generation where ug artists did not apologize for hurt feelings. You expected listeners to think themselves. Times are different now, obviously.

That said, one can be sure What is result. one follows that particular discussion further sees the proof: it becomes blatantly clear how the only ones who would demand ”apologize/explanation” will not accept it.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 05:17:30 PM by FreakAnimalFinland » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2019, 06:16:58 PM »

The "Dylan Miller" pieces are a collaboration between John Doran and Luke Turner to my knowledge.
What is your documentation on this?

Doran on social media saying that the pieces were his and Turner's attempts at self-accountability, having given promotion to a lot of this area of music in the past. And I guess being aware that some associations won't look good to future employers, corporations etc. Seeing as he is about to launch a BBC series New Weird Britain, Turner has a first novel out via a multinational publisher etc.

The Skullflower recent LPs on Nashazphone are still available via advertising links on The Quietus website. The clicks on this series have probably saved the website's financial plight single handedly.

Magick defends itself, so does money.


You have a link? Would like to see.
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cr
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« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2019, 09:22:40 PM »

The "Pure" being a wink to nazism is just too much for me to handle.

I'm absolutely sure, that Total was totally inspired by totalitarian Nazi regimes. And Skullflower undoubtedly got part of it's name from the SS skull.
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aububs
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« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2019, 09:46:21 PM »

I don't see why someone should be expected to still defend and refuse to explain some dumb teenage prank decades later.

I dont see what there is to apologize for? Considering that apart  name, there is no wp music in it. Just juicy sex noise. Isn’t that basically rough category where one could still file Many of his works?

none of his other works reference nazism. he's apologising for the work that does. which is good. not being a nazi is good, as i'm sure everybody on the special interests forum will agree
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« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2019, 09:47:08 PM »

In response to cr, above: no, not really.


http://skullflower-skullflowertruth.blogspot.com/2011/10/name.html


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« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2019, 10:44:55 PM »

it was posted as part of a discussion on nate young's facebook timeline, i think
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cr
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« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2019, 10:52:08 PM »


Yeah...and I was completely serious.
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Theodore
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« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2019, 06:03:29 PM »

I don't see why someone should be expected to still defend and refuse to explain some dumb teenage prank decades later just so a load of nostalgic industrial record collectors can still feel like it was 'real' or whatever.

I dont see why someone should accuse and demand apologies for some teenage prank [or not] decades later. Actualy i see, a political agenda and in most cases not supported / promoted for ideological reasons but for public relations, business, money.

This is not an artist said to friends and fans when in chat "Hey, dont take things i did decades ago too seriously" . Or it came out naturally in a nice interview. This is a system demanding humilating apologies and loyalty from now on. Systematicaly ...

Anyway, everyone make his choices. Dignity or more gigs / promotion.
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« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2019, 06:38:35 PM »

Quote
This is not an artist said to friends and fans when in chat "Hey, dont take things i did decades ago too seriously" .

yeah it pretty much was tho. I can't find the thread but it wasn't some 'SJW' twitter boogieman demanding an apology, or anyone from quietus or whevever. It just came up in a pretty constructive discussion in a facebook thread, not as a response to someone attacking him over it.
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Theodore
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« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2019, 02:01:10 AM »

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This is not an artist said to friends and fans when in chat "Hey, dont take things i did decades ago too seriously" .

yeah it pretty much was tho. I can't find the thread but it wasn't some 'SJW' twitter boogieman demanding an apology, or anyone from quietus or whevever. It just came up in a pretty constructive discussion in a facebook thread, not as a response to someone attacking him over it.

Maybe. I mean i havent seen it, dont know. I wasnt talking about Best or anyone's specific case. In general, and not only about the small noise "scene" , it happens in every aspect of "public" life . This system attacks everyone who does or says something that doesnt fit their agenda. Their ultimate goal is that humiliating apology, which even if it's sincere, wont be accepted neither believed cause it's under pressure and blackmails. They dont care only to destroy you, but above all to humiliate you, to see you begging for their [!] forgiveness. That's the real demonstration of power and the clear message to everyone else, be like us, work with us or you will probably loose the most important a man has. Dignity, self-respect, call it what you like, you know what i mean ...
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« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2019, 09:29:38 AM »

yeah it pretty much was tho. I can't find the thread but it wasn't some 'SJW' twitter boogieman demanding an apology, or anyone from quietus or whevever.

I suppose the thread is removed? "Pretty much" describes it well. Since one may see it as casual and constructive discussion and conclude that it is almost completely that. Yet, being almost...  another angle, is that rather public and well known guy who is known to stir trouble time to time, posts article and comments it's good writing and includes soon quote:

Quote
schoolboy Philip Best (Consumer Electronics/Whitehouse) released his infamous White Power cassette, and two volumes of Oswald Moseley speeches, on his Iphar cassette label (we’ll have more on this period in a future piece).

So, seeing your name mentioned, plus promise of more to come. Seeing people who operate on field of art quite close to you on verge of causing unnecessary obstacles... I can't blame much feeling urgent to comment somehow. I'm sure he regrets the tape title, as it is clear it still today causes more trouble than good things. To me it would feel that explanation would be fine, apology unnecessary. Why?

I dont see what there is to apologize for? Considering that apart  name, there is no wp music in it. Just juicy sex noise. Isn’t that basically rough category where one could still file Many of his works?

none of his other works reference nazism. he's apologising for the work that does. which is good. not being a nazi is good, as i'm sure everybody on the special interests forum will agree

People who oppose "nazism", generally oppose negative qualities what they associate with it. Discrimination, totalitarian authority, domination by the strong, acceptance of violence, anti-feminism, dehumanization and mockery of seemingly weaker groups of people, etc. They generally oppose these things regardless what brand is used to promote them. So for vast majority of folks, it doesn't really matter if you do not flirt with political history, but for example, just dehumanize women and glorify violence etc. If one looks at works of industrial/pe artists known somewhat provocative (in general, not even case of Best), you'll be bound to find this material. Some people do not like it nor they know how to handle it - beyond being outraged or disgusted. Even if they are completely unaware of motivations, true message, the standing offer of dialogue between material & listener.

It's like this Quietus comment section where someone was calling out Con-Dom. In fucking 2019! After every damn interview he has ever given, that speaks about modus operandi of project. And it still goes down to "hey, look he said the N-word some decades ago!!!". And as result you got handful of people running to defend how nice guy the artist is. And even if he is, that's besides the point.

There is rather great quote from GX of THE HATERS, about content of his work:
Quote from: GX in Troubled Sleep#3
The more people misunderstand me, the more I can understand myself. It's a kind of psychic calibration. Comparing a reinterpretation to the original intent gives me a deeper awareness of my own thought process. By this means, there is no passive audience, only collaborators.

Provocative artists, especially considering all the names mentioned here, are as far as I can tell, intelligent guys. They should know now that when you provoke, don't be surprised when people are provoked. If intention was just to piss off people, then work certainly succeeds. If one is to deliver more complex message and provocation is rather meant to spark people think outside the box -so to say-, one could start to observe why it is not getting through even if it seems plain obvious to artist? What I do not think intelligent guys are looking after, is conforming themselves to level of seemingly clueless mass. If that would the case, then it would be certainly easy as fuck: Apology, and get in the line.

(In cases, like name dropped Bizarre Uproar, it has no agenda beyond exploitative pleasures. It's sex noise from the world were sexual identities are told to flourish in all shapes and colors, and it certainly does.)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 03:10:29 PM by FreakAnimalFinland » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2019, 03:03:23 PM »

I'd watched the fallout from this on Facebook and I feel Raw Power were keen to use Skullflower's name to give their weak festival some credibility, but then they realised that stabbing Bower in the back would give them plenty of free publicity, I'd never heard of them before this.

I hadn't even heard of the Quietus either, I checked the article at the time and it was laughable and weak. The same goes for the allegations made.



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Cementimental
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« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2019, 03:28:55 PM »

I feel Raw Power were keen to use Skullflower's name to give their weak festival some credibility, but then they realised that stabbing Bower in the back would give them plenty of free publicity, I'd never heard of them before this.

I on the other hand have not only heard of them but been to most of their very strong and credible festivals (always very high quality, well organised, well attended, good sound, good crowd, great lineups so long as you like mostly psych/heavy/doomy rock-ish stuff ha) and also have worked for the promoter on graphic design/posters for the very many really superb gigs they put on every month. I have know the promoter for absolutely years since he was putting on small DIY noise/experimental gigs, AKA before half the internet PE goons assuming Raw Power is some clueless 'hipster' noob festival had even discovered Whitehouse via youtube links they found on 4chan. :D

It's not true that he's some 'hipster' 'SJW' outsider, and it's not true that he's cynically kicking up a fuss for publicity. Whatever you think of the decision he has simply seen material and statements he personally finds unacceptable and, as he has absolutely every right to do, has cancelled an artist because of it after first giving them a chance to respond.

Doesn't look like Bower is too bothered by all this anyway, he's deleted his repost of the cancellation email, deleted blog comments supportive of him and gone back to posting horse photos and nice folksy pagan bits of wood :D
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 03:34:01 PM by Cementimental » Logged

Lazrs3
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« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2019, 03:40:48 PM »

I feel Raw Power were keen to use Skullflower's name to give their weak festival some credibility, but then they realised that stabbing Bower in the back would give them plenty of free publicity, I'd never heard of them before this.

AKA before half the internet PE goons assuming Raw Power is some clueless 'hipster' noob festival had even discovered Whitehouse via youtube links they found on 4chan. :D



Internet PE Goons, that's too funny. :D , I can't argue back, I don't mean to be rude, I am too amused and that made my day.  
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 05:15:47 PM by Lazrs3 » Logged

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