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FreakAnimalFinland
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« on: March 13, 2021, 10:12:26 AM »

Again, I may refer to noisextra, TNB episode ( https://www.noisextra.com/2021/03/10/noisextra-discuss-the-new-blockaders/ ).
There is moment, where RRRon is quoted about importance of the debut album of TNB. I can't obviously remember exact quote, but his view was that despite this album was probably not the first and definitely not the last noise album, it was something that birthed certain type of "noise scene".

As I obviously was not around back in 1982, it was always mystery, how did people find out about this album. Where they did buy it. How they discovered the "noise scene". Even 10 years later, in Finland, one had basically no place where to buy, no gigs to visit, no articles to read, etc etc.  How RRRon described it, somehow resonated in a way that I have not thought about it for long time. Perhaps simply the distortion of fact that for 30 years "formation on scene" precedes "a release"? While something like TNB was published, it wasn't really clear who and what is the audience. Some people got it in their hands, they started to talk and correspond internationally, acknowledge eachothers existense and somewhat random people came together - formation of scene happened.

I can see this also in Finland, still in the 90's. There was no "scene" per se. Things had existed already years, but I did not know anyone who would have had or known Mika Vainios industrial works back then. Musiikkivyöry tapes were unknown. Mid 80's Finnish tape industrial compilations and post punk noodlings were totally forgotten by then. I think perhaps most crucial to formation of scene, was Man Is The Bastard being interested in couple noise projects from Finland. Getting flyers of U.N.D. and Aunt Mary (that sort of transformed into Bizarre Uproar). Doing splits with them. These bands were not really in any way part of "industrial" or "noise scene". Most people who bought them, were probably associating them almost as if it was joke from grindcore scene, taken into logical extreme. However, you could see that suddenly there emerged besides those guys, Bizarre Uproar, U.N.D., people who had gotten the stuff, and also may have gotten something else. Nobody had awareness that there would be "scene", but it was sort of born out of being aware of particular obscure release and notion that in other city, there is this one guy who worships the release as well. Already in those years, there would suddenly be established seemingly randomly connections where people who now play in Grunt, Pain Nail, Will Over Matter, Order., Sadio, and so on.. were in touch with eachother. By the end of 90's, you had influx to level that idea of even "gig" would seem realistic.

Most of the Finnish guys of this era, did not "join the scene". There was nothing to be joined to. Most started to make noise without even knowing there was TNB, Whitehouse or even Merzbow. This element is the most interesting for me. That genre is no way somehow linear progression. That specific country, release or album "started it all", and rest followed. But there was born things somewhat separate, barely related to the history of genre. Therefore the topic: "your" scene.


I am quite interested in how did this happen in other countries or other people. What was the discovery process of genre. For certain age group, especially USA, it often seems like its Relapse Records. Also Cold Meat has unusually large impact at least in Europe. Some people came from totally different angle. Still now there are many countries where never seemed to develop "noise scene" like it did in some other countries. Who knows why. I would assume it has to do a lot with personalities within genre, but also society where it emerges. Finland, being the nordic welfare state, enabled quite a lot what many who live here may take for granted.
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2021, 02:22:31 PM »

I was always just open to it, I liked metal a lot in highschool but somehow it wasn't extreme enough and brutal death metal didn't really do it for me. Been to many metal and rock concerts and I noticed that the loudness and as it went on the distortion of it all felt really good as I got more deafened by it. Became almost formless "noise" and I don't remember how but later I stumbled upon some blogs showcasing stuff from my first favorites which likely doesn't even exist anymore since it was just one of those typical pages with links to downloads on them. My firsts were I remember Sewer Election, The Rita, The Cherry Point, John Wiese, and Pedestrian Deposit which I still love. Then I started looking at labels and digging up more obscure stuff online and listening through Soulseek since digitally it was the only place I could get it (sometimes there would be no other way especially if it was a cassette release). Being in highschool at the time and not having much money or even knowing how to do the whole mail order thing. If you know me you'll know about it but no one has ever actually be interested. I did last Summer leave some promotional stuff from Troniks and a spare copy of Hal Hutchinson's Wreckage Installations in a bag somewhere and at one point it was gone so I wonder if it did get someone new into it.

So in a nutshell I think it's just a lot of similar people that all had the same thing they wanted to hear with sound in general from music all doing their own thing and then finding other people mostly on the internet that wanted the same thing, then things just rolled on from there. Just a bunch of  people with "special interests" over time finding others with the same eventually turning into something. And it turned into something so amazing cause I don't think it attracts a normal crowd in the first place and so many people had so much weird concepts to bring to the table.
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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2021, 03:00:06 PM »

I wrote about this for someone? @ 2014 I might have posted this before... here is a small section...

"I didn’t ‘get’ noise! I got punk, ‘reaction to the overly complex and pretentious dexterity and elitism of prog rock’, I got ‘rock’ – youthful challenge to the current social mores, influence of wider culture post war experience… I sorta got 12 tone, ‘abandonment of totality as it could no longer fully express’ … I got minimalism and drone ‘ecstatic sounds like veil paintings…’ all of these and more ‘I sorta got’, but I couldn’t get noise. And by noise I don’t mean ‘industrial’, power electronics, Whitehouse, Throbbing Gristle.. et al. in their angst, cathartic antics as a critique of humanities seemingly pointless and senseless being, and also the work of the absurd, the situationists… I can get that. I’ve sat through Becket’s Waiting for Godot, and kinda got that, I maybe couldn’t get it – all, who is Godot, Becket will not say. And the bleakness of ‘End Game’ – phew! – a fun night out… but I could not get noise. And by noise I meant in the first instance, probably now 20 or more years ago, Merzbow… and then The Rita . I could get the mistake of the “But a child of 5 could do it” criticism. I have got the general ‘I cant get it all’ idea as one explores art or anything… but what I couldn’t get about noise in these cases was that it seemed there was nothing to get. This noise might be a cathartic criticism, gesture or whatever, but that had been done. So its a copy, a simple repetition, but a piss poor one to use a technical phrase. I’d once owned a EMS Synthi which this guy was waving around and knew he hadn’t much of a clue of how to use it, or if he did he wasn’t much bothered. I could hear the volume and distortion meant that any structure or skill would in anyway be lost, but there was none in the first place. Or did Masami Akita or Sam McKinlay look angst ridden, they didn’t seem that bothered. They were not the usual suspects of adolescents who thought they had discovered Dada and performance art – yet again! Nope! I didn’t get – this ‘Noise’, I got the other stuff – sort of… but not this? And it annoyed me, because here it was, even in The Wire! the journal of approval for the creators of the new and exciting adventures in modern music, to paraphrase its masthead. But I could see nothing to it. OK – supposedly recordings of sharks or skate boarders – who could tell! I couldn’t. As far as I could hear it was simple incoherent noise, and those who thought it good seemed to me what are now called hipsters, phonies, just trying to be cool by attaching themselves to the next ‘new thing’. Like the idiots in the ‘emperor’s new clothes’ tale, there were no clothes, there was no skill, no music, no message. Then occurred my ‘Road to Damascus’ event. You know the one where Saul sees Jesus, changes his name to Paul and starts something even bigger that Microsoft or Google – Christianity (T.M.) My Epiphany. That’s what an epiphany is (I said this is for idiots). So what was mine re noise? Simple! All of the above was true! What! You might say, in fact many do, you mean you think noise IS RUBBISH! IS INCOHERENT! IS STUPID! Skill less nonsense… pour on the negative adjectives. But what about the fans who thought otherwise, held Masami Akita and Sam McKinley to be Gods, they, I now realized as the scales fell from my eyes (that’s St. Paul again- pun here on musical scales – no!) were wrong. The fans were wrong, anyone could do noise, it had been done before – way back it seems by some Italians... Russolo, the Futurists and art of noises, and in the 50s in France and the USA, Musique concrète - Pierre Schaeffer and Studio d'Essai... and John Cage among others. So regarding this “new” noise-music of Merzbow and others there should be the police officer’s voice at an accident, “nothing much to see here folks- move on, move on – nothing to see” – but there was – there was an accident! Deliberate Accidents.... "  etc.
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2021, 06:20:13 PM »

A Terroriser mention of Whitehouse sometime in the 90s and Cold Meat label compilations were my route in to things in the middle of that decade
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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2021, 02:16:33 AM »

In my experience, scenes developed when certain motivated individuals - Mark Groves, Clinton Green, Scott Baker, to name just three - decided to put on gigs and in doing so contacting people, sometimes out of the blue, to play. That was how I got involved with local people in Noise and so on. Things would then develop from there on their own.
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2021, 07:17:14 PM »

In the UK, there have been several Key Individuals that were consistent, but I can only really go back to the 2000s from personal experience.

In London you had Gia of ACL doing gigs, I belive she goes back to the 90s too. Of all the UK's gig people she took the most heat for things, but was consistent in ensuring UK audiences saw things like Grunt, Bagman, Atrax Morgue and many others. Another important unit down south of the UK in the 2010s was Unrest, the importance of the label and it's gigs such as the United Forces of Industrial festival and their individual gigs is important. The Harsh Noise London label seems to have extended to doing Gigs in London recently.

The West Midlands of England (mainly Birmingham) has key individuals who have put on gigs over the years, the Cities Prepare for Attack guy has done a lot of gigs for Noise/PE, I believe the guy who does Blackforest Productions has done a lot over the years. The W.I.P. guy is key to a lot of events too. I believe Capsule have put some noise related things on too, they are well known for Avant Rock,but I know they put things like Throbbing Gristle on when they came back.In the East Midlands Harbinger Sound was doing a lot over time with Ramleh, Prurient etc, that went on for decades. That extended to London gigs and events over the years. Rammel Club has done a lot over the last decade. Harbinger Sound worked a lot with Rammel too until relocating recently down south. I did go see Tunnels of Ah, Collosloth and Saori a year or so ago in Birmingham, not sure who put that on, but there seems to be growth there.

I am unsure of who did gigs in the North and Scotland over the decades, I think there has been pockets of activity in Manchester and Liverpool.

There does seem to be a pattern of when one motivated individual goes away another arises in terms of gigs and labels. It is difficult to trace to one scene as it seems like pockets of activity at different times. Once lockdown and Covid has gone, it will be interesting to see what happens in the UK.

The Fight Your Own War book talks about Termite Club and all in Leeds. I am usure if Cold Spring ever extended to gigs... but that was way before my time. In the Midlands shops like Plastic Factory and Tempest in Birmingham sold noise, my slow intro was Premature Ejaculation stuff I bought from there and Spinadisc in Coventry during the 1990s.

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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2021, 01:45:05 PM »

Very interesting to see similarities between Finland and Spain.

My case is Spain, although I don't live in Spain mainland but in the Canary Islands, a very remote spot closer to African sahara than Spain actually, so I guess my vision is very particular and it might differ from a Spanish guy's.

So, it was 1989/1990 in the Canary Islands when I was into Grindcore/ Death Metal scene.
Being maybe only 10 kids in our island into it I later started a Grind/Death band with some of them in 1991 and we were doing mailing and correspondence for tape trading, purchasing records, demos, fanzines and all sort of stuff which was obviously impossible to get in a different way.
At that moment I started to correspond with couple of guys who in my opinion were the key for me to enter in a noisier environment. These guys were members of two of the most important and influential Grindcore bands back then; El Kaso Urkijo and Violent Headache. Curiosly both these guys started in different points, While E.K.U. guy started from Extreme Metal, and V.H. one came from Punk Hardcore influences they both were going to coincide in a common point: Noisecore.
They were the first guys from who I started to hear from acts such as  Anal Cunt, Seven Minutes Of Nausea, W.B.I., Meat Shits, Bondage Harvest, B.G.T., Necrophiliacs... then I suddenly started to discover and correspond with a lot of other guys from all over the world who were into Noise stuff. Mainly from center Europe, USA and Japan.

So, later in 1992 I started my own Noisecore band (Genital Masticator) and some experimental, pseudo-electronic noise projects by myself.
Not knowing anything from TNB, Merzbow, Incapacitants, Maurizio Bianchi, Atrax Morgue, Le Syndicat, SPK, Boredoms.... who!? I was totally ignorant about early Industrial and Noise music and it took years for me to notice about them.

Some funny fact was that in 1992 some Japanese guy ordered via snail mail the 1st demo tape of my noisecore band and I send it to him not knowing who he was... years later I found the old letter he sent me and I was blown away... Masami Akita he was, writing his letter in the back of a Merzbow flyer! ha! at that first moment I didn't have a clue what that Merzbow thing was...
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2021, 02:17:29 PM »

where i lived in new york most people seemed to come from metal or punk background, but my route was different...
entering high school in '99 i was into bands like skinny puppy, ministry, front line assembly... they were called 'industrial' but i never really thought they should've been called that... 'dark electro' was more appropriate term for sure. when i thought of industrial i thought of machine shop sound, motors, scrap metal banging... i always wanted the music to be like that, wanted it to be more extreme. i made friends with some guys who were into more underground industrial, which was really 'rythmic noise' - this was better for me, though still not extreme enough... but they had their own bands using synthesizers, samplers, etc. and self released tapes, so i started recording what i thought industrial should sound like too - basically just noise. they were in touch with some other guys around long island who also produced this kind of stuff, to the point of actually releasing cd's and vinyl. through my highschool friends i discovered the ant-zen record label, which had previously released some totally non-musical records by bands like k2, msbr, aube, cccc, iugula thor, gero, contagious orgasm, astro, small cruel party etc... i became very interested and really liked the visual aesthetic, especially of the 'specially packaged' releases so went online to hunt these down for myself... came across self abuse records website, and patricks long detailed descriptions of bands with violent content and insane packaging - now this is what i was looking for! i remember trying, and failing, to order the bloody panties edition of taint - daughter, victimolgy 2 from self abuse - this seemed utmost extreme! my friend got the regular edition and i was there when the package arrived - he put it on and we were so confused about the sound. i loved it but didn't understand it, or why i liked it... but it was exciting! surely i had finally found the most extreme music!

gradually all but one of my friends lost interest in harsh noise. but my parents got the internet and i used it to find places like alt.noise, malignant records tumor list... and a local label that was still active had just released lefthandeddecison, this is how i became aware of phils activity. i started taking trains to nyc by myself to see shows. they were very small around this time - like less then 10 people for thirdorgan... one of those people which was dominic fernow of the label hospital productions of which i had already taken a liking to for his artistic aesthetic. he travelled hours there from rhode island. i then saw him play live many times during the pure microphone feedback era of prurient, i loved that shit. all the while i hadi kept recording and working on my own noise.. when i thought it worthy enough i eventually got together enough for first ahlzagailzehguh 3"s and mailed them to all the active labels i was into and random people who responded to messages on alt.noise. this cought the attention of j.vibg/viodre and we started emailing back and forth. we met in person one day, drank and did cocaine, and recorded some sounds. a few months later he sent me an email saying we have a show to play - this was at the graduation party of some guys called 'halflngs'...so through the halflings connections we started playing more shows... it was really fun, and those guys were highly motivated... so i played a lot, met a lot of people, and just kept it up... cause i love harsh noise!

that's that, fun to write and remember... looking forward to reading other peoples early experiences
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2021, 06:39:06 PM »

where i lived in new york most people seemed to come from metal or punk background, but my route was different...
entering high school in '99 i was into bands like skinny puppy, ministry, front line assembly... they were called 'industrial' but i never really thought they should've been called that... 'dark electro' was more appropriate term for sure. when i thought of industrial i thought of machine shop sound, motors, scrap metal banging... i always wanted the music to be like that, wanted it to be more extreme. i made friends with some guys who were into more underground industrial, which was really 'rythmic noise' - this was better for me, though still not extreme enough... but they had their own bands using synthesizers, samplers, etc. and self released tapes, so i started recording what i thought industrial should sound like too - basically just noise. they were in touch with some other guys around long island who also produced this kind of stuff, to the point of actually releasing cd's and vinyl. through my highschool friends i discovered the ant-zen record label, which had previously released some totally non-musical records by bands like k2, msbr, aube, cccc, iugula thor, gero, contagious orgasm, astro, small cruel party etc... i became very interested and really liked the visual aesthetic, especially of the 'specially packaged' releases so went online to hunt these down for myself... came across self abuse records website, and patricks long detailed descriptions of bands with violent content and insane packaging - now this is what i was looking for! i remember trying, and failing, to order the bloody panties edition of taint - daughter, victimolgy 2 from self abuse - this seemed utmost extreme! my friend got the regular edition and i was there when the package arrived - he put it on and we were so confused about the sound. i loved it but didn't understand it, or why i liked it... but it was exciting! surely i had finally found the most extreme music!

gradually all but one of my friends lost interest in harsh noise. but my parents got the internet and i used it to find places like alt.noise, malignant records tumor list... and a local label that was still active had just released lefthandeddecison, this is how i became aware of phils activity. i started taking trains to nyc by myself to see shows. they were very small around this time - like less then 10 people for thirdorgan... one of those people which was dominic fernow of the label hospital productions of which i had already taken a liking to for his artistic aesthetic. he travelled hours there from rhode island. i then saw him play live many times during the pure microphone feedback era of prurient, i loved that shit. all the while i hadi kept recording and working on my own noise.. when i thought it worthy enough i eventually got together enough for first ahlzagailzehguh 3"s and mailed them to all the active labels i was into and random people who responded to messages on alt.noise. this cought the attention of j.vibg/viodre and we started emailing back and forth. we met in person one day, drank and did cocaine, and recorded some sounds. a few months later he sent me an email saying we have a show to play - this was at the graduation party of some guys called 'halflngs'...so through the halflings connections we started playing more shows... it was really fun, and those guys were highly motivated... so i played a lot, met a lot of people, and just kept it up... cause i love harsh noise!

that's that, fun to write and remember... looking forward to reading other peoples early experiences

You're like me there with "industrial" or what was typically called so not really sounding very industrial to me at all. I don't really like that industrial besides a small amount of Industrial metal like Fear Factory which I'm actually listening to right now. I was also really interested in the whole obscure nature of actual industrial and noise with the limited editions, a lot of formats, and strange packaging. When I actually hear some for the first time I'm just like "this is what I've been looking for". I can collect thing but I don't really want to be a producer because making something I'm proud of would be pretty difficult and the amount of money I would burn on resources would be too much. Never been to any live shows because here there just never was any around here and I can't travel easily, I like the fact that it's all now reaching a wider audience through the modern internet but still retains what feels like a tighter community of people because it's still a niche interest even though I take it in, in a way similar to how I do a more musical extreme area like metal. 
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2021, 08:00:31 PM »

growing up in new jersey I was turned onto grindcore/powerviolence in HS in the late 90s (think Dillinger Escape Plan, MITB, The Locust etc.). For me and my friends there was a natural sense to dig up what could be faster and weirder than this; noisecore via Anal Cunt and the Meat Shits came across our radar, but I distinctly remember a friend telling me about Neon Hunk of all things and putting me down the Load Records rabbit hole. Load Records were critical to finding noise for me - their website was incredible for the time; bios of each artist, audio samples, etc. This may not seem impressive in 2021, but at the DAWN of the MILLENIUM it was pretty revelatory. It bums me out it seems to be dead now, but WayBack machine can show you what it looked like.

I attuned myself to the Providence scene (fort thunder and early Hospital) and then to New York. I was still real young at this point but, but I made it out to gigs at Red Light District, original Market Hotel, got turned onto the Wierd parties, made it to the Hospital standalone store(s) and really came to see it as a big part of my formative years. Growing up in the HC scene I was always stoked to see how PHYSICAL noise shows would get; whether the artist throwing themselves around or the audience pitting to feedback - it all just felt like a natural progression of aggressive release.
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2021, 02:25:23 AM »

Being part of a "scene", with all the camaraderie and solidarity that comes with it, is something I've always wanted, but on the other hand, been slightly wary and sceptical of. With every musical scene that I've been associated with (and there have been many, since I'm old and I've moved around a lot), I've felt more like an outside observer, and while I fully understand that that causes insiders to be suspicious, I'm not entirely sure I would prefer it otherwise. Every scene eventually develops its own rules and range of acceptable behaviours, opinions, dress etc. And of course, worst of all, rules regarding what music "has" to sound like, and what live shows "have" to be like. Once the scene police appear, to enforce the "rules" in order to advance their own position within the scene, you pretty much know it's game over.

But of course on the other hand, without a scene, it's pretty much impossible to get anything done. Live shows at least. I sort of have one foot in the arty, experimental camp (often frequented by art students) and the other in the more rugged and uglier Finnish noise/PE scene, that I suppose this forum is primarily concerned with. If somebody put a gun to my head and insisted that I absolutely have to express a preference, I would choose the latter, but nevertheless, both have their pro's and cons. I have even sought to bring them together to a minimal degree in the shows I've put on myself.

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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2021, 04:33:08 AM »

Just on the concept of scene, I've noticed that there are some in the USA, even shows happening pretty regularly (before covid).
But in Europe it seems that there are just some freaks here and there, not really a scene like in punk or metal. If there is a show once a year it's already something.
Maybe I'm mistaken ? At least that's the feeling I get.


First noise I heard was Premature Ejaculation, because of Rozz Williams. Didn't get it at first, but was very intrigued. And I thought there was no rules, nothing. You could do whatever you wanted in Industrial music, make the most noise you can, bang some scrap metal, play with pedals and amps. Some kind of freedom that punk wasn't bringing me anymore, and also more extreme attitude and visuals. Then I discovered there were more constructed projects too. But the primal impact I got from it stuck through the years.
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2021, 10:40:10 AM »

I just moved and I'm pretty sure there is no scene here. Making connections and my plans are to start something eventually
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2021, 03:27:20 PM »

Just on the concept of scene, I've noticed that there are some in the USA, even shows happening pretty regularly (before covid).
But in Europe it seems that there are just some freaks here and there, not really a scene like in punk or metal. If there is a show once a year it's already something.
Maybe I'm mistaken ? At least that's the feeling I get.

The scenes that have existed have all been freak driven. Usually there is a couple of people that just start setting up shows and a scene evolves. Typical and great case was Utmarken in Gothenburg. Rehearsal place which the people just start doing shows at. People started to come and a scene evolved.
Back in the eighties me and my mates set up a shit load of HC shows at our rehearsal place in Linköping/Sweden. No one local was that interested but Sweden from Raped Teenagers was in contact with all these HC guys and we thought it was fun to do it. So for a couple of years there was HC scene populated by folks from other places. Years later there was a big HC scene in the city but by then I was long gone.
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« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2021, 10:01:18 PM »

Usually there is a couple of people that just start setting up shows and a scene evolves.
This.  Always.  I don't care what scene, community, or pastime is in question, there are always a small number of ambitious people at the core of it all.  Without them, things are likely to go nowhere.  It seems obvious, but for those further away from that core, it can mistakenly appear to be "just happening" or spontaneous or destiny.  There's nothing mysterious about the ambition and labor of those people.  And I'm not one of these types, but I absolutely recognize and appreciate them.
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