"economy" of noise - tapes

Started by FreakAnimalFinland, April 11, 2016, 09:55:23 AM

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collapsedhole

off-topic, but $4 7"s were the best.

C601

Charge whatever for shipping people will still pay

ImpulsyStetoskopu

#17
Quote from: bitewerksMTB on April 12, 2016, 12:04:57 AM
It looks like you release nice cds. I'll pm you my address and you can send me EVERYTHING because I'm super passionate about them but I have no interest in giving you money or you covering your costs.

Sorry, but I don't trust you :) There are friends who don't need pay for my releases and get it for free. Besides, I am huge enthusiast of your music and it would be great to know your new or old items which I haven't got, so... maybe trade?

ImpulsyStetoskopu

#18
Quote from: collapsedhole on April 12, 2016, 03:03:48 AM
i think the point is this - no one is doing this to get rich, but it is nice to not lose money every time you put out a tape.

Of course, there isn't problem with getting rich. Problem is with concept of "it would be nice to not lose money every time you put out a tape". Where is located this thin line between loosing, refunding and profits?
I'm against to such standard relation to our passion, and cultivating such attitude which is source for that all crippled cultural system which is around us.

FreakAnimalFinland

In a way I agree with Impulsy. What most people do, involves plenty of trading. Many guys take anything what appears good. I'm assuming everybody sells at loss, if you start to think how much work hours this passion is being invested. These would be default standards of "noise activity", that one doesn't even need to remind about.

However, I'm not talking about passionate artists who exists even if it would be matter of creating 1 master tape of recording which wasn't meant for sale. Or collector who hunts what he likes, regardless of how much effort it requires.

What I have understood from original tape culture and even its usage within industrial scene, was that it was most of all affordable. Without doubt, it therefore includes economic decision of some sort. Like it or not.
It was meant as affordable alternative compared to publishing records. It was meant to reach people who couldn't afford records. It was method of having outlet for stuff that couldn't find even couple hundred people to be interested. But there was still passion to create as well as communicate. One way was to build network. The networks of labels, bands, distributors and people. I still believe, physical format and existence of actual items and network creates other kind of things than lets say, clicking youtube links or discogs buttons.

One can conclude now that due internet, you will find the source you and you just paypal him, so where do you need this "network". And everything is online anyways, so why even bother? I simply disagree and therefore observe the possibilities of such network to exists.

In case of distributor, one may ask what is the passion he should display? I'd rather see people display passion not on their single and directed fetishes for collectibles. Why? That's something what you expect from anyone by default. I'd rather see distributor have passion to build something bigger than him. For example support new name what nobody (yet) knows or cares. It still requires some sort of possibility to break even. That is my assumption. I mean, guy who I don't know, music what I have not heard, lets throw 50 euros to drain just for fun. That is exactly the what I mentioned about yuppification of noise.

Self-absorbed young professionals, earning good pay, enjoying the cultural attractions of sophisticated urban life and thought, and generally out of touch with, indeed antithetical to, most of the challenges and concerns of a far less fortuned.

"oh, so you didn't throw 25,- +shipping for new japanese C-20, all you think is money, not passion"... pfff...

Elitism in counterculture based on nothing but disposable money is pretty faggy, if you ask me. I'm not talking about some bullshit egalitarian principle, but somewhere between here lies questions is there any way tape to serve it's old passion-enabling function as means of distribution in 2016? I think that barely. I'm not at all concerned about rich kids and passionate hoarders. I rather approach it from perspective what originally tape publishing had (unless I'm totally mistaken): reaching some new people. Getting material heard. Having passion to put out stuff nobody (yet) gives a fuck, but could be exposed.  It still works, if all is done as well as you could, but doesn't look that bright....

E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

WCrap

maybe the question is also: what is a tape for you? is it just a format you prefer or is it loaded with some 'esoteric' value? is there a reason why a tape has a different profit margin than a cd when it is (sometimes) more expensive to produce? what is the reason a tape sells for 7 euro while a cd sells for 12?

ImpulsyStetoskopu

#21
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on April 12, 2016, 09:08:05 AM

"oh, so you didn't throw 25,- +shipping for new japanese C-20, all you think is money, not passion"... pfff...

Elitism in counterculture based on nothing but disposable money is pretty faggy, if you ask me. I'm not talking about some bullshit egalitarian principle, but somewhere between here lies questions is there any way tape to serve it's old passion-enabling function as means of distribution in 2016? I think that barely. I'm not at all concerned about rich kids and passionate hoarders. I rather approach it from perspective what originally tape publishing had (unless I'm totally mistaken): reaching some new people. Getting material heard. Having passion to put out stuff nobody (yet) gives a fuck, but could be exposed.  It still works, if all is done as well as you could, but doesn't look that bright....



Too many things to clear up, and my English is so limited...
We aren't able to eliminate extreme examples of human stupidity, swanks etc. They are in every kind of circles, among noise/industrial enthusiasts too.
"It doesn't look that bright" because the world and people aren't perfect. This is a cliche, I know, but should we focus on such "publishers" or "collectors"? Maybe should we think about how we may improve this situation? Is it possible at all? Anyway I have no idea how it could be...  Maybe it is time for giving up...

And, last, but not least - maybe a key is located in human/receiver, not in publisher minds? I mean, I consider that the first step should make a receiver, not publisher? Why does publisher/artist need create to receiver's mind, taste and enlightenment?

Cementimental

We should count ourselves lucky... In the Vaporwave scene at the moment tapes are routinely £8+ and that's usually for home dubbed, inkjet-labelled cassettes! These kids don't even seem to realise it's possible to get pro dubbed, pad printed ones made and sell them for <£5. But then again people are actually buying that stuff :D

ImpulsyStetoskopu

Quote from: Cementimental on April 12, 2016, 01:37:36 PM
These kids don't even seem to realise it's possible to get pro dubbed, pad printed ones made and sell them for <£5. But then again people are actually buying that stuff :D

I know about pro dubbed cassettes but I prefer doing it by myself. I guess that I use the better cassettes and I use higher quality of recording. I prefer to do the rest process of printing too. Usually I sell it for 5-6 EU.

Bleak Existence

the more you grow up the less you want at least for me whole tape cd lp etc market will die 100% sure of it soon  was good when it lasted futur is digital release even if some do not like it it will be as us old fuck will die young one will take the place and it will be idea from another old time they will not give a shit about it too lol

Duality

#25
Quote from: Cementimental on April 12, 2016, 01:37:36 PM
We should count ourselves lucky... In the Vaporwave scene at the moment tapes are routinely £8+ and that's usually for home dubbed, inkjet-labelled cassettes! These kids don't even seem to realise it's possible to get pro dubbed, pad printed ones made and sell them for <£5. But then again people are actually buying that stuff :D
Christ, I'm glad I don't listen to that garbage. 8 pounds for slowed down 80's pop is 8 pounds too much.
Quote from: Bleak Existence on April 12, 2016, 02:17:24 PM
the more you grow up the less you want at least for me whole tape cd lp etc market will die 100% sure of it soon  was good when it lasted futur is digital release even if some do not like it it will be as us old fuck will die young one will take the place and it will be idea from another old time they will not give a shit about it too lol
I'm probably one of the younger people on the forum, and I still enjoy physical media. I truly believe that there will always be a market for tapes etc. because some people will always prefer to hold shit in their hands, as opposed to paying for ones and zeros.

urall

does anyone take the length of a tape into consideration when comparing price/value ?
C10 <> C15 <> C20 <>...

vomitgore

Quote from: ImpulsyStetoskopu on April 12, 2016, 02:08:22 PM
Quote from: Cementimental on April 12, 2016, 01:37:36 PM
These kids don't even seem to realise it's possible to get pro dubbed, pad printed ones made and sell them for <£5. But then again people are actually buying that stuff :D

I know about pro dubbed cassettes but I prefer doing it by myself. I guess that I use the better cassettes and I use higher quality of recording. I prefer to do the rest process of printing too. Usually I sell it for 5-6 EU.

This! Oftentimes, dubbing plants offer worse quality than can be achieved with self-dubbed tapes on Chrome (of course, not always). The assumption that factory production equals better quality is not always true.

F_c_O

Quote from: urall on April 12, 2016, 03:45:32 PM
does anyone take the length of a tape into consideration when comparing price/value ?
C10 <> C15 <> C20 <>...
All depends on the type and quality of the sound on the tape. Some types of noise fit better on short tapes while some on longer. For example, even an idea of dead body love c10 sounds ridiculous while that format would be fine for some fast paced burst of noise. In the end, the value comes from the quality, not quantity.

cantle

Am I missing the point here or is the whole thing a nostalgia trip in a market of increasingly diminishing returns?