DARK AMBIENT

[bogskaggmannen]

"Probably the most hated topic on Special Interests forum"

Yeah, I know the many of you aren't interested in this and i'm not particularly fond of most either. However, there ARE good dark ambient out there, done with skill (not to confuse with multilayering and ten thousand sounds happening in one track). One problem many have with it is the "generic" sounds, but I tend to think there is at least the same amount of "basic sounds" around in filthy noise.

I was asking at the Segerhuva forum for groups (working today) which works primarily analog, without being one of those guitar drone bands. Does it exist at all nowadays? And yes, i've heard of INADE (besides I think they are 100% digital today?), JARL etc. etc.  Don't take the genre-description too seriously - to me ARCHON SATANI's "Virgin Birth", ETANT DONNES & MICHAEL GIRA's "Offenbarung Und Untergang" and a lot of BIG CITY ORCHESTRA's and BJ NILSEN's records could be considered dark ambient.

I have one suggestion in the more orchestral vein (though i'm sure they are almost 100% digital too) - France's NATURE MORTE.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I think what I mentioned in Playlist, recent ones:

Tho-So-Aa
Post Scriptvm
Vortex

I think what bogskaggmannen describes, is the association with the most generic keyboard tones or dullest guitar drone. Or some new agey muzak. But if dark ambient is something what just creates DARK (whatever it means..) AMBIENCE without strict need to follow all the typical patterns, one could name all the northern finland projects a'la AEOGA, ZOAT AON (not sure what he is doing nowadays?), ARKTAUS EOS, etc..  Their music is probably often wanted to be removed from blatant "dark ambient" tag, in favor to underline ritualistic tendencies. Meditative slow drift of mystical scents and bells over dark swirling tones and wind instruments etc.  Some may feel it's so much more than just "ambient", but I think this is pretty much exactly what I'd prefer to call "dark ambient".

Was recently listening some Isomer material (also Tesco) and it's a crossover of many things. It has some PE elements in it, sampled music fragments. But in the end, somehow I'd rate that also closer to wide category of "dark ambient" than anything else?

About Inade, I was at some point little dubious about their digital approach and would just assure myself that anyday I prefer to listen some old 10" of theirs, but when you actually take a listen to something like Inade new CD... well, it is really good. Digital or not, very well done and capturing sounds.

In some ways I would feel that a lot of "ambient" was always.. hmm.. perhaps could be called "futuristic" music. And it seems pretty obvious that projects of genre would move from tape and vinyl to CD and from analogue to digital as soon as it was possible. Not that it would be mandatory, but it just seems like it.

[Strömkarlen]

Isn't Dark Ambient a genre that keeps reappearing under a new name? The latest version being Black Noise or was it Black Ambient? I can't remember properly. In the past there have been a tendency of calling the bands you don't like Dark Ambient and the ones you like something else. I mean have you ever seen a t-shirt with a I heart Dark Ambient anywhere.

As for tips Wraiths from the UK is pretty dark ambientish but could also be called death industrial or I'm sure a thousand things starting with black. Pretty good in creating a nice "dark" atmosphere.

[bogskaggmannen]

Mr. Ström - in parts I think you're right. The term "black ambient" was coined in the late 90's I think? Originally, I think it was more a way to explain the mixture of (parts of) black metal, perhaps mainly that kind of vocals, and ambient. If memory serves me right Roger at CMI called MZ.412 black ambient when they were in their most "black metal looking" period, i e "Burning the temple of God" and "Nordik battle signs". As ambient and power electronics were invaded then by (former-)BM-heads (thanks to Mortiis), it was not really a surprising description and evolution.

[BARRIKAD]

Listened to a variety of dark ambient when I finished my master's degree. Can not say that there is something going on each and every day here at home but it has its charm. I like bands like: Kammarheit, Deutsch Nepal but realy like to point out the tribal ambient project Phantasma Deluxe. The record Carnival is sold out but Drone Records still have it in stock. Dark ambient also have the problem that if it sounds too sterile and clean it sounds like film music, or at worst atmosphere music from new age stores "sound of the sea" etc. I remember reading alot of the term dark industrial during the 90´s (old Propergol etc.) something I would say that I like more then dark ambient. 

[bogskaggmannen]

But let's not go into genrename details...

About analog / digital - i'm not that negative about digitally created "ambient" but I think there was something lost in the transfer of recording processes. Where earlier all you could do while creating was listening, now I tend to think its more about creating "interesting" structure on computer screen? Whole body of work is often lost in changing/altering sounds, maximizing the overall feel with mass of blurred atmospheres. To me, simple is most often best while listening, but on computer screen it looks boring.

[mystikum]

maybe deathprod falls into this category?  I still enjoy the moral and dogmas album

[catharticprocess]

I think this term has been tainted by the majority of the artists using the label producing very poor quality sound.  I think the Aural Hypnox bands have released consistently great material.  Much of Anakrid's stuff could be called dark ambient, and his material is stellar.  As for digitally produced dark ambient, I think Inade and Human Greed do it best, and most others fall far short of even being tolerable.  I think too many followed the direction of (the excellent album) "Heresy" by Lustmord, and not enough payed attention to the direction offered by TAGC's, Organum's and Zoviet France's ambient work.  I also see a lot of direction to be offered to the genre by John Duncan, MB, and more ritual artists like Ain Soph and Archon Satani.  I record some material that could be called "dark ambient," but first, I reject the term, and second, I use exclusively acoustic and analog sources, and am far more influenced by artists like TAGC, Zoviet France, Giancarlo Toniutti, Organum and MB, and even artists like Daniel Menche and Kevin Drumm, than I am by any of the material that generally gets labeled as dark ambient. 

-Ben

[catharticprocess]

Oh.. forgot to mention: also, like much of the other industrial music that is favored by European labels that release dark ambient in large amounts, it is clear that they are closet rivetheads.  Thus, the aesthetics reveal this very mainstream and very braindead approach in their graphics, design, recording methods, instrumentation, and so on.  Generally, you don't have to look any further than the cover art to know this.  They're one step away from welding goggles and moon boots.

-Ben

[Zeno Marx]

Halo Manash, Arktau Eos, Land:Fire, and Voice of Eye rule the roost for me right now.  I'm still more interested in this corner of experimentalism than I am any other, but I don't buy much from new projects because its difficult to trust anything written about anyone anymore.

I'm a little confused by what you're looking for with this thread?  Can you clarify a bit?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Oh.. forgot to mention: also, like much of the other industrial music that is favored by European labels that release dark ambient in large amounts, it is clear that they are closet rivetheads.  Thus, the aesthetics reveal this very mainstream and very braindead approach in their graphics, design, recording methods, instrumentation, and so on.  Generally, you don't have to look any further than the cover art to know this.  They're one step away from welding goggles and moon boots.

Would it be accurate to say that the opposite end of dark ambient is one step away from full beard hipster drone?
I guess pretty irrelevant where the step would be, if it's not taken, hah.

But it would be curious to see the examples of such labels... are talking about... Cold Spring? Cold Meat? Dark Vinyl? Tesco? Old Europa Cafe? Eibon? LOKI? Or who?
The remark is obviously tongue-in-cheek, but it also allows one to compare the achievement of each label, and despite those achievements, what would be how they're viewed. I mean, the labels mentioned has brought  Schloss Tegal, Inade, Thee Angels Ov Light Meet Thee Angry Love Orchestra, Archon Satani,..  / Archon Satani, D.Nepal, Aghast, Raison D'Etre,../ Lustmord, Nocturnal Emissions, Archon Satani, ... / Post Scriptvm, Illusion of Safety, Cruelty Campaign, Galerie Schallschutz,...  / D.Nepal, Brume, Bad Sector, Endura, Ain Soph...  / Caul, Gruntsplatter, Moljebka Pvlse, ... / Inade, Predominance, Herbst9, .........    It's kind of who-is-who list of dark ambient of various kind, or perhaps I'm mistaken? Still I fail to see a lot of the "rivethead" connection, since many of the labels are also responsible for a lot of PE and even noise. Of course, I don't deny the connection that there is. Especially in germany due type of live activity they have.
But what makes it more "mainstream", is something what I do question. What is less mainstream in design of various US labels, even many who do plain noise? Helicopter, Blossoming Noise, Malignant, Hospital, just the name couple?

[Zeno Marx]

Missed catharticprocess' post.  He's thinking along the same artist line as I do.  Jogged my memory of the past couple of Tonuitti releases that I'd recommend in such a thread.

Giancarlo Toniutti - Ura Itam Taala' Momojmuj Lowajamuj Cooconaja 2007
Giancarlo Toniutti - Sound-Field for Rattle Harp 2008

Just started listening to MB's Das Platinzeitalter album.  Something about it screams "shoddiness" to me.  By its end, maybe I'll come around to it.

[ConcreteMascara]

Skin Area, while not exclusively "dark ambient" combine the physical and digital approach really well. Journal Noir / Lithium Path is extremely well executed in my opinion.
Jarl is one of the few mostly digital artists I can stomach in this field. His work often has a slight psychadelic flavor that actually makes the music more surreal and dark instead of palatable.

[LocusSolus]

Jarl is one of the few mostly digital artists I can stomach in this field. His work often has a slight psychadelic flavor that actually makes the music more surreal and dark instead of palatable.

I've never considered Jarl as a digital artist. All sources are analog or concret. Extensive use of analog reverb etc. But that's perhaps the reason that you find his music interesting? If I'm not mistaken (by memory) the only digital equipment he use is one tiny digital delay, which - by the way - I suppose 99% of those considered "analog" use as well.
I guess his music can be considered as dark ambient tracing its history. But it's more of an extension and development of works by early MB and Tangerine Dream's Zeit. Those works can perhaps serve as a more direct inspiration, while I'd add Terry Riley as an indirect formula (form and structure perhaps).

[ConcreteMascara]

I did not know this about Jarl. Thanks for clearing it up. I just kind of assumed his source was primarily digital for some reason.