CHANGE OF CLIMATE IN NOISE / SOCIAL FACTOR / GENERATION ME

[ARKHE]

THESE ARE SOME MESSAGES ROUGHLY BUTCHERED FROM "TRUE CRIME" - TOPIC. I MOVED IT TO MAIN NOISE SECTION... -Moderator

Nothingisttrue facing 30 years in prison under the Dangerous Offender statute.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/05/state_plans_to_argue_a_portlan.html

first-degree sodomy

Didn't know there was different degrees.

Depends on the amount of lubrication used.

Guess he's upped the ante of what's "keeping it real" in power electronics is about. Walk the walk, etc.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

That's what he kept saying in Troniks before got kicked out. I consider it being more of egocentric american hipster approach than the "PE" / "industrial".

Was reading quote from mr. Diego Rivera, where his prophecy of art was "If artists refuses to seek and accept topics/substances, his own esthetic theories and plasticism will become the substance. If he can avoid that, the topics of works will be just himself".
NIT surely managed to reject noise and substance and eventually be just all about himself and his boring HIV infected prison girlfriends and beaten up human wrecks. His ability to repeat same stories over and over again - whether as himself or under impression he was some other guy just informing of Kyle's recent misbehavior - was perhaps reaching the level of art already in its repetitive pattern. But substance of it, I don't think there's any? Me me me me..... look at me me me... 



Over here, couple days ago, young boy armed with rifles he took from his dad's possession had a sniper style shooting in middle of small city Hyvinkää. 2 dead, 7 wounded. One police officer in critical condition. It was late night and he was using silencer, so people started to fall, but at first did not realize someone was shooting.

[ARKHE]

That's what he kept saying in Troniks before got kicked out. I consider it being more of egocentric american hipster approach than the "PE" / "industrial".

Was reading quote from mr. Diego Rivera, where his prophecy of art was "If artists refuses to seek and accept topics/substances, his own esthetic theories and plasticism will become the substance. If he can avoid that, the topics of works will be just himself".
NIT surely managed to reject noise and substance and eventually be just all about himself and his boring HIV infected prison girlfriends and beaten up human wrecks. His ability to repeat same stories over and over again - whether as himself or under impression he was some other guy just informing of Kyle's recent misbehavior - was perhaps reaching the level of art already in its repetitive pattern. But substance of it, I don't think there's any? Me me me me..... look at me me me... 

Ah, didn't realize he was that guy. Who knows, maybe some reporter will sniff out his subcultural belonging and try to whip up a sensationalist storm around P.E. Unlikely anyone would care, though.

Over here, couple days ago, young boy armed with rifles he took from his dad's possession had a sniper style shooting in middle of small city Hyvinkää. 2 dead, 7 wounded. One police officer in critical condition. It was late night and he was using silencer, so people started to fall, but at first did not realize someone was shooting.

Read about that, he was quoted saying it "was fun" on the internet. Any further info on his motivation besides small-town boredom?

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

Another out of control, self destructive, weak and dangerous asshole ruins his life. No sympathy. Fuck him. He's heading where he belongs and long may he remain there.

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

My brother worked as a prison guard for a few years and I must have heard hundreds of stories about people like this guy. They are all, without fail, weak, sad and ultimately boring. I see no value in him at all.  I find self destructive people with no control over their lives repulsive.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Exactly. IF he was able to produce great noise or make art of his anti-social impulses, it could be more interesting.

Now when big part of his noise appeared to be someone elses noise and in large view, very diverse in quality (assuming the bad stuff was himself trying to be what the stuff he simply ripped off from others releases were?), and none of his acts would different from the everyday's news you hear, I doubt he will get the following of SPK, hah... 
While people outside "PE scene" seem to think everybody worship and goes crazy after this guy, it might be hard to understand that such actions hardly matters to vast majority. In reality he never managed to even get beyond CDR/tape phase - which tells a bit about the "popularity" and "worship" he gets.

I did one of his early releases on cdr back in 2004 when he appeared to be young promising act and I did bunch of releases from such new starting projects. Out of several CDR's of stuff I found c. 30 mins worth putting out. Who knows who's material that actually? Met him back in 2005, seemed ok guy, yet hardly anything else. Not much recollections.

It appears he was simply trying to build some sort of myth around him. So much he was talking about these same incidents, it suddenly is becoming clearer that there might not be that many of them afterall? I'm quite sure anyone who's involved in some sort of subculture, knows plenty of cases of violence, sex, drug abuse, homicides, suicides, incidents with police or security service, etc etc. Unless you can use it as substance to achieve something higher, as far as I'm concerned, it just belongs among the human mud together with the clueless savages and the culture of "keepin' it real".  If every HIV infected loser beating up their women would be the hero, I'm sure for example south african themed afronoise would be top popularity? Fortunately even PE isn't about worshipping average or less than average losers and their daily life failures.


Finnish rifle sniper case is still under investigation. No details yet about the reasons. They say it might have been just an "impulse".

[HONOR_IS_KING!]

Why though Mikko, do you have to point out "American"?

Every time I see you posting that its almost as if I'm reading the word "nigger" instead.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Because at least in context of noise/pe, it's more american than european phenomena? It's been discussed many times in different topics what makes US & Euro noise/pe different, and this factor is probably one?
Of course it doesn't apply to all americans, but still it's not a surprise Kyle's case is American, and not for example Swedish or English.

[HONOR_IS_KING!]

Because at least in context of noise/pe, it's more american than european phenomena?

People acting like jackasses?

Hardly.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

No, but more often making noise/PE projects about themselves. Or the mundane interests.
Not having substance what radiates the persona behind it, which at least to me is great difference.

It was talked for example in Jason Crumer interview of SI#7, where question about change of content in USA noise (/pe) was asked. How big % this affects? Probably enough to acknowledge it.

[HONOR_IS_KING!]

No, but more often making noise/PE projects about themselves. Or the mundane interests.
Not having substance what radiates the persona behind it, which at least to me is great difference.

It was talked for example in Jason Crumer interview of SI#7, where question about change of content in USA noise (/pe) was asked. How big % this affects? Probably enough to acknowledge it.

Jason Crumer was for sure the wrong person to ask.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

You've seen the interview?

question was this:

You mention "newish wave of USA noise". In some ways, many of the older noise may have felt quite international. Following some traditions of for example european industrial/pe or japanese noise. Being part of international mail network. Perhaps scenes have been "localized" or "normalized" by actual personal contacts. Popular live gigs, face to face communication and such? As result, do you think there is now something particularly more american and something which has common wibe around the states? For example when you mention that basic american society is perverse enough for you. It appears as if a lot of noise changed from transgressive cultural extremes to wacky semi-pop culture references. Records made about skateboarding, horror movies, gay rights, romance, poetry, or whatever... Where it's more likely to see graphics closer to Sonic Youth than Genocide Organ and see noise releases distributed by indie companies and sold in corners of strange boutique shops - instead of the old tradition reminding nearly mail-order porno catalogues.

Which may not apply to american P.E. as a whole, but P.E. as just fringe of noise scene (which it seems to be), most definitely. It was about noise anyways. I don't really consider NIT as "PE" band. I can't see much reasons why it would be more than "noise"?

NIT's approach doesn't differ from this contemporary personal fame & egocentric approach of media youth. And I'm sure you don't need to ask many to show how the "new wave of usa" has changed to nature of noise. Even if all people don't belong to it. That his life happened to have some violence he celebrates to meaningless dullness, doesn't transform it to "industrial" or "PE". It remains the noise diary of egocentric new wave. Seemingly transgressive, but to me very shallow pop.

Of course the stories are nice. It isn't out of place to celebrate forced piss-drinking session. Just how its done, reveals motivations that are utterly lame. It isn't really John Duncan we're talking about.

Jason Crumer most definitely knows what he's talking about - since he's admittingly one of them. Not necessarily a "scene band", but most definitely narcissist and egocentric and does it very well. Although being the scumbag badboy, he actually makes amazing art - not just try to stir worship & attention with his (rumored) actions, but gets praise/attention despite it? Perhaps exact antithesis on NIT although on exact same arena.

[HONOR_IS_KING!]

You've seen the interview?

question was this:

You mention "newish wave of USA noise". In some ways, many of the older noise may have felt quite international. Following some traditions of for example european industrial/pe or japanese noise. Being part of international mail network. Perhaps scenes have been "localized" or "normalized" by actual personal contacts. Popular live gigs, face to face communication and such? As result, do you think there is now something particularly more american and something which has common wibe around the states? For example when you mention that basic american society is perverse enough for you. It appears as if a lot of noise changed from transgressive cultural extremes to wacky semi-pop culture references. Records made about skateboarding, horror movies, gay rights, romance, poetry, or whatever... Where it's more likely to see graphics closer to Sonic Youth than Genocide Organ and see noise releases distributed by indie companies and sold in corners of strange boutique shops - instead of the old tradition reminding nearly mail-order porno catalogues.

Which may not apply to american P.E. as a whole, but P.E. as just fringe of noise scene (which it seems to be), most definitely. It was about noise anyways. I don't really consider NIT as "PE" band. I can't see much reasons why it would be more than "noise"?

NIT's approach doesn't differ from this contemporary personal fame & egocentric approach of media youth. And I'm sure you don't need to ask many to show how the "new wave of usa" has changed to nature of noise. Even if all people don't belong to it. That his life happened to have some violence he celebrates to meaningless dullness, doesn't transform it to "industrial" or "PE". It remains the noise diary of egocentric new wave. Seemingly transgressive, but to me very shallow pop.

Of course the stories are nice. It isn't out of place to celebrate forced piss-drinking session. Just how its done, reveals motivations that are utterly lame. It isn't really John Duncan we're talking about.

Jason Crumer most definitely knows what he's talking about - since he's admittingly one of them. Not necessarily a "scene band", but most definitely narcissist and egocentric and does it very well. Although being the scumbag badboy, he actually makes amazing art - not just try to stir worship & attention with his (rumored) actions, but gets praise/attention despite it? Perhaps exact antithesis on NIT although on exact same arena.

Yes I had to read it. Jason still sounds like the jackass he was at Neon Marshmellow Festival and so full of himself. (Watching him fall apart while performing was one of my personal highlights of that fest.).

On top of that his business/professional credentials are in the shitter as well. Too broke and too retarded to mail stuff out?!?!? Anyone in Finland play those games? And yet you still woo over them because of their past work?

His opinion is quite weak and has nothing to do with the Industrial/PE/noise scene that I was apart of in the Midwest. He spoke for himself and himself only.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

NIT website hosted on FA server is still up, that's kinda funny

yeah, hah! I have not had ftp program of connection for like... 3 years? That's why something like Grunt site as well is last updated.. 2009? There has been some cleaning up and as soon as my webmaster gets time, new Grunt site and also NIT will be bye bye. Already while ago was most of old useless sites erased (such as Creamface, Lolita Slavinder Records, Pain Nail, Clinic Of Torture, TäysiQ, etc) but some still remain.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

On top of that his business/professional credentials are in the shitter as well. Too broke and too retarded to mail stuff out?!?!? Anyone in Finland play those games? And yet you still woo over them because of their past work?

His opinion is quite weak and has nothing to do with the Industrial/PE/noise scene that I was apart of in the Midwest. He spoke for himself and himself only.

If we talk of his music and him as artists, issues such as if he's reliable businessman are irrelevant. I would never order anything from Crumer and I do not recommend anyone to do so. But I strongly recommend to order latest CD from Second Layer. This is perhaps the great sign of phenomena what I was talking about.
Music is normalized and localized and it's not really about if his album is good, but who's buddy he was and whether he was nice guy. This soon infiltrates into actual content of music and artwork.

I base my opinion on observation, meeting & discussing with people. There can exists people and "scenes" out there I know nothing about. But question is not whether there are exceptions - few or a lot of them - but of change where obviously and without doubt scene isn't what it used to be. 
Like what would be popular genre defining labels like MSNP, Self Abuse, Deadline, AWB, Arbeit Group, Armed & Loaded, Aeon, DOM usa, Circle Of Shit, Jinx, Sound Of Pig, Taint Entertainment, Banned,... etc etc...   compared with  No Fun Prod, Rainbow Bridge, Chondritic Sound, Blossoming Noise, Hanson, Apop, American tapes, gods of tundra, etc etc..    Of course there will always exists the fringe area of harsh and transgressive noise (say TF/PE, Trash Ritual, and so on), but nobody could deny that the stream of popular noise from USA that defined the "uprise" of new american noise is something that approaches noise often from very different angle. I don't say the labels would be bad. I worship some of them who took the "new" approach, yet I can't associate myself well for the mentality of "generation y". I guess we need Zeno Marx to explain the generation difference and the change in scene where shift of attention from Jap noise or euro industrial/ambient was taken over by American new wave noise? hah...

Social psychologists and journalists like New York Times columnist David Brooks argue that the way our generation uses social media sites reveals a level of self-promotion not found among previous generations.
They say Generation Y has turned into Generation Me. Apparently our egoism is just a click away.

Phenomena is global, yet in form of actual releases, I see differences between continents. That some do not belong and some do not even know what the hell is talked about, doesn't change what just about every social psychologists and experts have studied and pointed out. Even when being seemingly outsider, observations seem to apply.