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HongKongGoolagong
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« on: November 30, 2011, 06:11:44 AM »

Although I'm not a fan of most of the artists discussed on this purportedly 'anti-fascist' website, I got pretty annoyed about the campaign they initiated during the summer. Here's an email I recently sent to the site owner Strelnikov, with his permission I'll update this thread with any replies I get:


Hi Strel,

Sorry for the rather confrontational nature of my emails but obviously it's a topic on which feelings are going to run high, I quite surprised myself with how worked up about it I got last summer.

The 'about' section on the site which forces you to think about the idea of 'the sanctity of art' is something I did find usefully thought-provoking. To address the only writer believed to have far-right sympathies whom I admire: a hardline anti-fascist wouldn't have allowed Celine to go on and write North, Rigadoon and Castle to Castle and I think that would have been a loss to humanity. I've read Bagatelles (published online in bootleg translation by far-right creeps) and it contains some stunning writing, although the content is relentlessly disgusting and I think his estate are right to suppress it - whether it was intended as a parody of anti-semitism or not, the timing was horribly stupid.

My respect foranyone who was ever involved in organised far-right politics is automatically severely diminished, be it Tony Wakeford or the bloke from Blaggers ITA. I think that if I was a fundamentally apolitical fan of these crap bands such as Sol Invictus though, my respect for anti-fascism would have diminished severely as a direct result of the anti-Slimelight campaign initiated by your site. People don't generally enjoy being lectured by soft cops about why the things they enjoy are wrong, it feels comparable to public health campaigns.

As well as damaging anti-fascism's credibility to a bunch of clueless music fans, the other great achievement of the campaign was stopping the pervy American writer Sotos from coming and showing his badly-collaged gay porn videos (you can see an example at the French videodrom site) which brings me to the moral crusade, tabloid-friendly angle of things. I can understand hating fascism to the point where smear campaigns and the use of folk devils feels justifiable, but it's the same impulse that leads to real escalation of mutual antagonism, to the violence which only the state wins.

Anti-fascists in somewhere like St Petersburg, Russia where they have a real job to do (and more real nazis to go after) are fucking heroic in my eyes. Those in the UK who cloak the moralising impulses usually associated with the religious right in the guise of 'anti-fascism' deserve satirising without mercy.

Best -

Simon
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RyanWreck
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, 06:15:34 PM »

Anti-fascists in somewhere like St Petersburg, Russia where they have a real job to do (and more real nazis to go after) are fucking heroic in my eyes. Those in the UK who cloak the moralising impulses usually associated with the religious right in the guise of 'anti-fascism' deserve satirising without mercy.

Best -

Simon

Well said. I definitely agree about being anti-fascist in a place like St. Petersburg and Saarland would be a very rough job and would require real dedication and resolve. Even though I do not agree with their most leftist politics these groups out in Russia and even France do deserve a small pat on the back. Most AF folks don't go there, they end up in the rough streets of Berkley or Jacksonville.

This is good, I want to see what this kid says in reply. The internet is a modern soap box and everyone flares up behind a keyboard.
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FreakAnimalFinland
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, 10:25:46 PM »

I considered the site as pretty good entertainment. Of course, slander spiced obvious personal agendas there, yet still, making a lot of bands appear more interesting than they actually are?

It still is very amusing, that someone would target possibly about smallest existing subculture and choose that as target of opposition. As if the day to day life in UK wouldn't offer great deal of threats of all sorts? Like someone said, it's most of all meaning for your own life. Building entire careers of opposing things. To address any real problem in real society, you're just one of the guys living this boring thing we call life. But, when you're right there, in frontline battle of international leaders of specific extreme subgenre... ehm, what a glory days! :D

I'm sure the next thing will be about exposing all the evil noise and pe bands. And the horrible harm the limited tapes ebayed from collector to collector has done. At best, the lack of artistic-, political understanding might after all be just was most bands would need to make them appear interesting at any level. So lets keep fingers crossed. I guess it just needs one more clueless nazihunter to happen.
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GEWALTMONOPOL
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2011, 03:43:03 AM »

After speaking to a few friends with much better knowledge of the left than I have it is my understanding that this blog was nothing but an attempt by trostyite Socialist Workes Party members to, for as far fetched as it was, try and kick up enough of a stink about something which may or may not have been real in order to set up some form of front organisation in order to siphon off grants (government or otherwise is my guess) to keep their small and dwindling party going. After making an almighty racket online their protest outside the 6COMM gig at the Slimelight proved rather pathetic. About 20 or so of them showed up with banners, shouted in a megaphone and took some photos of concert goers before they fucked off. That's all it came to in the end. In other words the arse fell out of the whole thing and, as fun as it could be, I'd be surprised if much is heard from them again. Expect to see them at the next and nearest political rally trying to muscle in on the action. That's what they always do. They are well known for it, almost to the point of being a British institution and they are of course the laughing stock of everyone except maybe themselves.
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HongKongGoolagong
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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 12:36:46 AM »

I have friends in Russia who have known kids beaten to death by neo-nazi boneheads for expressing the wrong opinion. So I would use the word 'fascist' to refer to assholes like that, not even to the very small minority of neo-folk or industrial artists who really do claim to espouse genuine far-right ideologies. Unless it's a word scrawled on someone's door, words are not actions. The likes of Brethren may talk the talk but I seriously doubt they walk the walk...thankfully.

UK 2011: rising poverty, hopelessly corrupt police/press/politicians, violent streets filled with mobs of dispossessed youth, seething class and racial tensions, the worst standards of education in Europe, a population spied on continually by government bureaucrats - and someone's writing about what a problem those Sutcliffe Jugend track titles from 29 years ago are. Fucking ridiculous!

I think it's more likely that the SWP tried to muscle in on the anti-Slimelight campaign rather than them initiating it, although one of the guest writers for the site was definitely SWP-affiliated. It is interesting knowing first hand some of the personalities and behind the scenes grudges that go into these obsessive fixations. The world of fringe politics is smaller and bitchier than any music scene. No reply yet from Strelnikov and I have no idea who the guy is.

The Socialist Workers Party is such a boring and ineffectual permanent fixture on the British landscape trying to claim 'solidarity' with almost every single issue radical cause they can that it's possible to forget the aspect which makes them almost interesting: their similarity with a cult. They get recruits from 'lovebombing' university students, members are expected to do long unpaid work hours selling newspapers, and it's difficult to leave once you're in.

If anyone is interested in seeing what passes for the far-right in Britain, here is a pretty ridiculous video from what is supposed to be the most violent neo-nazi group around, although all the evidence suggests that it's the latest in a line of state-sponsored honeytraps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seYqxNS-FlI
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Goat93
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2011, 05:54:56 PM »

Quote
So I would use the word 'fascist' to refer to assholes like that

Why don't you use the Word "fascist" for the People, who are Fascists? I never came of the Idea to call a Black HipHop Singer a "Ketchup Bootle", so why instantly use the Wrong Words for the wrong People?
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HongKongGoolagong
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2011, 09:33:59 PM »

Quote
So I would use the word 'fascist' to refer to assholes like that

Why don't you use the Word "fascist" for the People, who are Fascists? I never came of the Idea to call a Black HipHop Singer a "Ketchup Bootle", so why instantly use the Wrong Words for the wrong People?

Since the 1930s 'fascist' has simply been an all-purpose insult to disparage someone's politics used by those who oppose said position. There hasn't been a nationalist group in the world for many decades who describe themselves as such, correct me if I'm wrong. As I was attempting to critique 'anti-fascism' I had to define its opposite, so chose the example of Russian neo-nazis who act like a cross between cops and fundamentalist muslims.

Aww fuck politics is boring, who wants to hear some gossip about William Bennett instead...
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ironfistofthesun
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2011, 11:31:41 AM »

ye  ok...go on then ?
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Goat93
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2011, 02:20:59 PM »

Quote
So I would use the word 'fascist' to refer to assholes like that

Why don't you use the Word "fascist" for the People, who are Fascists? I never came of the Idea to call a Black HipHop Singer a "Ketchup Bootle", so why instantly use the Wrong Words for the wrong People?

Since the 1930s 'fascist' has simply been an all-purpose insult to disparage someone's politics used by those who oppose said position. There hasn't been a nationalist group in the world for many decades who describe themselves as such, correct me if I'm wrong. As I was attempting to critique 'anti-fascism' I had to define its opposite, so chose the example of Russian neo-nazis who act like a cross between cops and fundamentalist muslims.

Aww fuck politics is boring, who wants to hear some gossip about William Bennett instead...

Russian Neo-Nazis sounds correct. Fascists sounds incorrect. So, why not calling them Neo Nazis in the First Place? Easiest Way to use the Names, they give themselfes ;)
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HongKongGoolagong
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2011, 03:59:28 PM »

Russian Neo-Nazis sounds correct. Fascists sounds incorrect. So, why not calling them Neo Nazis in the First Place? Easiest Way to use the Names, they give themselfes ;)

Well who knows what they call themselves, it might be actually be 'racially aware nationalists' or something - like I said I am trying to define what real 'anti-fascists' are against by finding an example that most people would probably agree with.

ye  ok...go on then ?

I was just teasing, I wouldn't put that stuff on a public forum, I do have some great stories about him though...
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Goat93
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2011, 06:43:54 PM »

The real "anti fascists" fighted against Italian based Fascistic Ideologic.  And there are some Groups in every Country who supports this Ideologic.
The Fight against National Socialism is also called "Anti fascistic", cause its easier to handel, but is hell wrong. Also the Term "Nazi" is wrong itself, but it is better to have a Catchy Word instead of a Grammar Correct Term. Today "Anti fascists" are against all and nothing. Most important you are against something.

In Russia National Communism and such Partys are common since years. Bind National Socialistic and Communistic Ideologic together. In Germany it was called "Kampfbund Deutscher Nationalisten" but afterwards they were drifted to the Right Side and then canceld...
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GEWALTMONOPOL
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2011, 06:58:48 PM »

UK 2011: rising poverty, hopelessly corrupt police/press/politicians, violent streets filled with mobs of dispossessed youth, seething class and racial tensions, the worst standards of education in Europe, a population spied on continually by government bureaucrats - and someone's writing about what a problem those Sutcliffe Jugend track titles from 29 years ago are. Fucking ridiculous!

An obvious fact but agreed on all counts. That's probably not what the people behind this SWP campaign have in mind though. I'm sure they don't actually give a good flying fuck who released what, how or why either. They have bigger fish to fry in terms of trying to salvage their dying party and this is more than likely only one avenue being persued.


I think it's more likely that the SWP tried to muscle in on the anti-Slimelight campaign rather than them initiating it, although one of the guest writers for the site was definitely SWP-affiliated. It is interesting knowing first hand some of the personalities and behind the scenes grudges that go into these obsessive fixations. The world of fringe politics is smaller and bitchier than any music scene. No reply yet from Strelnikov and I have no idea who the guy is.

It's a chicken and egg situation. From what I saw whomakesthenazis started the campaign and then The Love Music Hate Racism cunts picked up the baton and ran with it. LMHR packs a bigger punch than WMTN but from what people tell me they are pretty much both the same. LMHR may have (may is a key word here as I'm don't think anyone knows for sure) started off honestly enough but has over time become infiltrated to become another front for the SWP to get grants to keep their party going. Didn't the same thing happen to Rock Against Racism years ago? Most of the people who tried to whip up a frenzy about the bands and the organisers on FB had links to the SWP when I checked their pages. Another thing which my commie friend (not of the Trotskyite variety) pointed out, which is so fucking obvious I should have known it, is Strelnikov himself. Strelnikov = Trotsky. So blatant it's embarrassing that I didn't realise it myself.

Also, I've understood that the real Anti-Fa (whoever they are) wanted nothing to do with this campaign as they deemed it complete bullshit. At least a couple of posts on the WMTN blog gave me that impression. Scene grudges? As in Nigel Ayers? Someone I know called him a "poor forgotten man". Another friend mentioned that problems never come from the outside but always from people who've been involved in the genre. Ayers fits that description. Watch him as he tries to stir shit on that blog. Ayers, WMTN and LMHR are cunts. Not only are they cunts, they are cunts with not much support or any real clout. Piss on them.
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HongKongGoolagong
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2011, 10:32:46 AM »

Strelnikov (whose nom de plume is taken from the character in Dr Zhivago, nothing to do with Trotsky) indicated to me that he would not want any reply to be published here as the standard of debate is too poor. So probably the final post from me here and with luck this depressing thread will die.

I don't know much about this crazy-sounding woman Freya Aswynn who was pilloried by the site but I do have a book from 1999 called 'Yes We Have No' by Nik Cohn in which she is interviewed and clearly states her opposition to fascists and willingness to physically oppose them if need be. Instead of referring to her own statement the activists chose to dig up tenuous guilt-by-association links to far-right individuals dating back to the 1980s.

The idea that national socialism was in any way influenced by right-wing currents in avant-garde art is disproved by history. Hitler didn't dig any of the Futurists, he was influenced by semi-literate scabrous anti-semitic papers sold on the streets of Vienna. So a major premise behind the site is faulty in my opinion.

My own position to make it clear: I don't enjoy explicit political content of any kind in art from an aesthetic point of view, although some of the fetishism of Come Org/Broken Flag/Iphar from 30 years ago was kinda fun for its time - all regret it now of course. I know and get on with lots of anarchists, fewer people from the left, fewer still from the right.
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2011, 10:59:23 AM »

Strelnikov (whose nom de plume is taken from the character in Dr Zhivago, nothing to do with Trotsky) indicated to me that he would not want any reply to be published here as the standard of debate is too poor. So probably the final post from me here and with luck this depressing thread will die.

It will, by locking.
I consider "standard of debate being too poor", quite ridiculous. I mean, it IS internet, isn't it? Have they read the "debate" what happens on their site? Comment section - or otherwise? To me it sounds like they simply can't justify what they do in a way it would convince other than people with same "cause". And what is easier way out than this? Nothing. Make up shit with malicious intent and personal grudges, refuse to explain when asked. Upstanding activism of the most intellectual level.
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