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Author Topic: The Advancement Of PE/Industrial In 2022  (Read 2191 times)
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FreakAnimalFinland
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« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2022, 07:51:13 AM »

Even the more niche mainstream magazines (stuff like The Wire) can't seem to make heads or tails of "the genre"; it's still just always back to Dilloway and Wolf Eyes. If anything, stuff closer to ensemble free-jazz (Crazy Doberman, Wasteland Jazz Unit) is doing more to "advance" the world of noise at large than anything, even if it's just bringing more attention to the scene in a way that's palatable to some portion of the masses by incorporating novel instrumentation and melodic structures.

Few years ago when Wire journalist felt like new Cloama album was pushing into interesting territories with sound and wanted to write review of it, I sent physical copy upon request. After writing was done, review submitted, editor told review is not going to be published as there is potentially problematic connections. Not that there was anything wrong with Cloama. In such case, I would assume, most of industrial/pe and even harsh noise can't be on Wire. There is always something potentially problematic lurking few clicks away.

What happens when radical forms created by youth become ossified and acceptable? Whether this is black metal, gangster rap or techno (which all emerged simultaneously), the process is the same.

History of contemporary youth cultures is quite new, since this type of youth cultures barely existed... some argue, before 1955 or so. Sure jazz and that type, but not sure can it be rated predominantly youth culture? Many times it feels, the youth is consequence of who had free time and cultural acceptance to do certain things. More we go back, the shorter the period of "youth" was before dragged into "adult life". A lot of former youth cultures, you see the bands operated pretty much exactly in period before getting "real job" and family. In our age, difference is that already most have parents who grew up into the "youth culture". And even bigger difference that the free time, resources and creativity are not exclusively qualities of youth and also the real job or family is not necessarily goals nor mandatory evils for a lot of people.

In noise we have endless examples of that noise blossomed in time when some of artists were young, but for a lot of relevant artists it wasn't like punk or hc or metal, where teenagers made couple good albums and quit (or continued too long and often turned lame). In noise, you got plenty of examples of artist who started... and never stopped. Examples of artists who even got better, during 30+ years non-stop activity. I don't think noise is "youth culture", for a lot of reasons, and therefore should not be treated as such.
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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2022, 10:46:18 AM »

I have been thinking a little more about this topic. I tink the questions, aside from the talk of reception, are: what do we mean by advancement, is it necessarily the same as innovation, and what does innovation mean in this context?

It seems like everything is a kind of grave robbery these days. Some new take on already established approaches and sounds. This is probably because we have endless acces to music history and can listen to all those records that were not available to most people before. Then again, wasn't it always like this, people took something and rearranged it into something else? Take TG, f.ex. They are heralded as true innovators, creators of industrial as a genre. But didn't they just take '60s psychedelia and mix it with classical avant garde, some '50s-'60s beatnik poetry/counter culture and fuse that with the punk approach of their own time? Sure, the mixture was (or felt?) new, but the elements were essentially already available cultural templates. Same thing with the occult dabblings that followed.

So what is the difference between TG and bands of today who mix already existing sounds/approaches/aesthetics into something that is (or feels like) their own blend? To me it seems true innovation never existed, just small ajustments to already existing sounds. Free jazz was not an innovation, f.ex., but a rearrangement of jazz standards, and industrial was also not an innovation, just another rearrangement of - well - sounds and cultural "stuff". So the way forward is then simply new artists who create more rearrangements and ajustments? Sounds like a boring vison, perhaps, but I think that is how music has always evolved historically...
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Zeno Marx
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2022, 10:09:22 PM »

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but aren't many of you essentially saying innovation and advancement take a back seat to quality?  I know I'm not convinced that innovation and advancement are all that important in comparison to quality.  The work is going to stand if it is good, regardless.  Now, HONOR_IS_KING! is in a little bit of a pickle because he wants to feed his family and prepare for retirement with his music.  I say that with no pretext.  It does, however, dictate that he has to do something different in order to achieve those goals.  The best of the greatest of the best haven't been able to make a living and prepare for retirement with bona fide classic work.  There's no other option than to find a new style or a new something else.  We know it cannot be achieved with simply great work.  He's going to have to get lucky and stumble upon the lottery winning ticket.  That isn't to undermine his effort or artistic abilities, either.  Again, no pretext.  Not only is he going to have to innovate, but then all the other X, Y, and Zs are going to have to fall into mystical and lucky alignment, because that's how it works.  That's how it always worked.  It doesn't matter what discipline or product is in question.  You gotta have the stuff, but then you have to have the world forces lining up to take it all out of the basement and into "Hotel California" number of ears.
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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2022, 06:16:51 PM »

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but aren't many of you essentially saying innovation and advancement take a back seat to quality?  I know I'm not convinced that innovation and advancement are all that important in comparison to quality.  The work is going to stand if it is good, regardless.  Now, HONOR_IS_KING! is in a little bit of a pickle because he wants to feed his family and prepare for retirement with his music.  I say that with no pretext.  It does, however, dictate that he has to do something different in order to achieve those goals.  The best of the greatest of the best haven't been able to make a living and prepare for retirement with bona fide classic work.  There's no other option than to find a new style or a new something else.  We know it cannot be achieved with simply great work.  He's going to have to get lucky and stumble upon the lottery winning ticket.  That isn't to undermine his effort or artistic abilities, either.  Again, no pretext.  Not only is he going to have to innovate, but then all the other X, Y, and Zs are going to have to fall into mystical and lucky alignment, because that's how it works.  That's how it always worked.  It doesn't matter what discipline or product is in question.  You gotta have the stuff, but then you have to have the world forces lining up to take it all out of the basement and into "Hotel California" number of ears.

I would also agree that quality is way more important than innovation. Of course, innovation should be acknowledged and many will say it's necessary, but I would choose something GOOD over something innovative any day of the week. I just came about a comment on Snuff which someone has posted on Discogs, attacking the band for sounding "just like Whitehouse and Ramleh". Despite the fact that that isnt entirely true, my response would still be... so what? It's not like we are being drowned in amazing temporary PE, so why criticise the good stuff for supposed lack of innovation?

My personal take on advancement is probably just "getting better" and "appreciating and / or creating something good". Innovation isnt irrelevant, but I have often had the impression that it often felt a bit forced.
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