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Author Topic: Marking Your Own/Surrounding Person/Territory In Culture (MYOPIC to MYSTIC)  (Read 3223 times)
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theotherjohn
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« on: September 27, 2020, 06:05:38 PM »

(Please excuse the obtuse thread title but I couldn't resist the opportunity to use some intriguing acronyms...)

Stage 1: MYOPIC = Marking Your Own Person In Culture (nearsighted / shortsighted / narrow-minded)

Stage 2: MYOTIC = Marking Your Own Territory In Culture (excessive constriction of the pupil of the eye as a result of drugs, disease, or the like)

Stage 3: MYSTIC = Marking Your Surrounding Territory/Territories In Culture (involving or characterized by esoteric, otherworldly, or symbolic practices or content; (...) spiritually significant; ethereal.)

This thread is dedicated to the discussion of the culture of noise/industrial/PE etc, and how it presents itself in ADDITION to or BEYOND the music and artists. Specifically, I'm intrigued by merchandise, promotion, advertising, propaganda, signals/symbols, ephemera and other material/psychological aspects that help spread a project's name, ideas or message - both to those "in the know", as well as to potential outsiders. Are there means or methods that could only belong within this niche culture, or are we simply reusing tried and tested methods from larger cultures to help achieve this goal? Is the obscurity of a niche culture like PE by design (i.e. relative anonymity), or simply a result of not following rules that more prominent cultures thrive on?

I'll provide a simple example: an artist or project releases their latest album into the world. It's on CD, tape, vinyl or whatever format and it comes with visual artwork to house said format. Nothing too out of the ordinary so far. However, the customer also receives (unadvertised for argument's sake) a sheet of peelable stickers with the project's name or the album artwork printed on it, or a t-shirt with the project name or album artwork on it. It exists outside of the music, but still - it exists. One person receiving said extras might simply bin these useless trinklets as it serves no purpose other than as distraction. Another person might carefully file their stickers or t-shirt away alongside their album at home to form a private shrine or archive of sorts.

But, yet another person might put their stickers on their noise equipment or hi-fi, or play/attend a noise gig wearing the project's t-shirt to show support. And then, yet another person might decide to vandalise major cities by placing these stickers on prominent buildings/tourist attractions, or commit a very public crime whilst wearing their t-shirt in full view of the mainstream media. Same medium, different outcomes - subtle vs blatant, legal vs illegal, planned vs unplanned. Could the original project or its label have had these thoughts in mind when issuing these shirts and stickers out into the world?

Of course, there must be much more to noise and PE culture than stickers and t-shirts for spreading a message beyond the music or project (not that they are to be completely discounted methods!), so please feel free to list examples here - maybe consider what the intent and outcomes of such a project (and their audience) using such a medium is, and also what makes it unique to the "spirit" of noise/PE compared to another subculture? Whether it's the common or mass-manufactered (pins, totebags, hoodies, patches, posters/flyers, clothing lines), more limited/DIY efforts (fan clubs, graffiti, original artwork, handwritten letters, detritus from a recording session), audiovisual methods (non-official concerts/bootlegs, unedited recording samples/stems, radio shows/podcasts/social media etc), or even the truly bizarre or unusual (memes, cults, rituals, tattoos/body mod, naming your firstborn after a noise project etc), all are worthy of discussion.

And it goes without saying but imaginary, fantasy or future/speculative ideas are more than welcome too if that hasn't already been gathered! I do have to wonder what the perception of noise or PE will be like in the next 10-20 years. Will it be more of the same, still lurking in the underground (the MYOPIC or MYOTIC stage), or will it transcend into something completely different (the MYSTIC stage) than how it currently exists in the present?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 07:58:10 PM by theotherjohn » Logged
Lukas
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2020, 06:41:19 PM »

MYSTIC
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theotherjohn
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2020, 07:19:24 PM »

If that's too esoteric, how about a Stage 2.5 of MYTHIC = Marking Your Territory Historic In Culture?
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Balor/SS1535
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2020, 07:45:58 PM »

I think it is some combination of all three (though particular projects likely focus on different aspects).  As Genocide Organ said: GO YOUR WAY.  FIGHT YOUR WAR.
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theotherjohn
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2020, 08:17:50 PM »

I think it is some combination of all three (though particular projects likely focus on different aspects).  As Genocide Organ said: GO YOUR WAY.  FIGHT YOUR WAR.

But if Genocide Organ/Tesco Organisation use the same promotional methods as your average mainstream rock band (t-shirts, hoodies, pins etc) to disseminate/promote their music's message of individuality, is their message still as effective? https://tesco-usa.com/product-category/shirts-merch/

Of course, if there's a secret fanclub within Tesco that issues more selective/discerning/unique material to its members, I would be FAR more interested to hear about that...
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holy ghost
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2020, 11:57:06 PM »

I truly enjoy the concept of a harsh noise sticker. However I am unable to utilize them in any was aside from excitedly shouting “look! A STICKER!!” when I get them in a package and then storing them in the small plastic tub filled with buttons, other stickers and patches. I occasionally think about plastering my mixer with them, and then I don’t. They shall sit in that tub until I die or sell all my records.

I purchased the Merzbow “14 Birds in a Bag” set from Imprtant Records and the Merzbow tote bag that it came in is my prized grocery hauler. I have destroyed any potential resale value by hauling carrots and cilantro home from the market. I think Merzbow would like it that way.
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theotherjohn
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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2020, 01:28:19 AM »

Stickers are indeed underrated and especially hold value for younger people first getting into a subculture scene - I'm reminded of buying my first skateboard mag in my teen years and sending off a SAE to a mailorder service to get in return a catalogue and some sticker sheets of cool/professional brands/logos* to camouflage my not-so-cool/amateur first deck. Got to fake it until you make it! I have a small collection of noise stickers too, some of which I've picked up for free at shows and others which were given out by artists or friends. Never paid for them and I think doing so individually would be missing the point (stamped addressed envelopes excluded). They win out for me over t-shirts and most other mass-manufactured merch due to their light weight/size and cost, easy reproduction and their potential for humorous subversion - my favourite one was the unofficial New Blockaders sticker of some guy drunkenly pissing on himself in public that was produced in protest at the long delayed Nichts Fur Niemand release...

*Come to think of it, skateboard grip tape with a logo painted on it would make perfect promotional stickers if used by harsh noise projects...
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Balor/SS1535
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2020, 02:01:22 AM »

I think it is some combination of all three (though particular projects likely focus on different aspects).  As Genocide Organ said: GO YOUR WAY.  FIGHT YOUR WAR.

But if Genocide Organ/Tesco Organisation use the same promotional methods as your average mainstream rock band (t-shirts, hoodies, pins etc) to disseminate/promote their music's message of individuality, is their message still as effective? https://tesco-usa.com/product-category/shirts-merch/


I guess the question is who the message is meant to work on: yourself or others?  If yourself, then it really does not matter how the communication of the message looks or what it seems similar too.  If others, then there seem to be at least some reasons to think that you need to communicate in a shared language (and the usage of shirts to spread a message is a shared, common practice).  Otherwise, it would not be communicable (it would be incomprehensible to the uninitiated other).   I can see some potential objections to this, but it is a start, I guess.

By the way, I really like this thread idea.  Very interesting.
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Balor/SS1535
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2020, 02:03:52 AM »

I truly enjoy the concept of a harsh noise sticker. However I am unable to utilize them in any was aside from excitedly shouting “look! A STICKER!!” when I get them in a package and then storing them in the small plastic tub filled with buttons, other stickers and patches. I occasionally think about plastering my mixer with them, and then I don’t. They shall sit in that tub until I die or sell all my records.

I purchased the Merzbow “14 Birds in a Bag” set from Imprtant Records and the Merzbow tote bag that it came in is my prized grocery hauler. I have destroyed any potential resale value by hauling carrots and cilantro home from the market. I think Merzbow would like it that way.

I'm with you all the way when it comes to stickers.  I can never use them on anything, because I worry that the sticker would be wasted if I ever happened to get rid of the thing to which it is attached.  But then the sticker is just left unused...
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holy ghost
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2020, 03:42:38 AM »

I'm with you all the way when it comes to stickers.  I can never use them on anything, because I worry that the sticker would be wasted if I ever happened to get rid of the thing to which it is attached.  But then the sticker is just left unused...

I have a skateboard I haven’t used in 20 years because it has a totally thrashed Gob (Reno) sticker on it. I’ll cart it around until my dying day. It’s got a hella sick Cattle Decapitation sticker from their early days too.

I think the most effective way to market is a button or pin - The Rita pin that New Forces made is a huge favourite of mine. I have 15 different jackets/flannels depending on the season. A sticker sits placed, I like the pin it gets worn on something.
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Balor/SS1535
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2020, 05:46:20 AM »

I'm with you all the way when it comes to stickers.  I can never use them on anything, because I worry that the sticker would be wasted if I ever happened to get rid of the thing to which it is attached.  But then the sticker is just left unused...

I have a skateboard I haven’t used in 20 years because it has a totally thrashed Gob (Reno) sticker on it. I’ll cart it around until my dying day. It’s got a hella sick Cattle Decapitation sticker from their early days too.

I think the most effective way to market is a button or pin - The Rita pin that New Forces made is a huge favourite of mine. I have 15 different jackets/flannels depending on the season. A sticker sits placed, I like the pin it gets worn on something.

Definitely.  A pin is like a reusable sticker.  I have had some that I have worn over the years too (though nothing music related!).  More labels/distros should promote with stuff like that.
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2020, 10:28:48 AM »

"Reterritorialization is when people within a place start to produce an aspect of popular culture themselves, doing so in the context of their local culture and making it their own."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reterritorialization

"When you will have made him a body without organs,
then you will have delivered him from all his automatic reactions
and restored him to his true freedom."

"This body is also described as "howling", speaking a "language without articulation" that has more to do with the primal act of making sound than it does with communicating specific words."

"This is how it should be done. Lodge yourself on a stratum, experiment with the opportunities it offers, find an advantageous place on it, find potential movements of deterritorialization, possible lines of flight, experience them, produce flow conjunctions here and there, try out continua of intensities segment by segment, have a small plot of new land at all times. It is through a meticulous relation with the strata that one succeeds in freeing lines of flight, causing conjugated flows to pass and escape and bringing forth continuous intensities for a BwO."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_without_organs




etc.
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Cementimental
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2020, 10:41:29 AM »

Quote
Another person might carefully file their stickers or t-shirt away alongside their album at home to form a private shrine or archive of sorts.

https://thehardtimes.net/culture/man-enters-10th-year-of-searching-for-perfect-surface-to-apply-band-sticker/
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theotherjohn
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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2020, 12:09:11 PM »

Quote
Another person might carefully file their stickers or t-shirt away alongside their album at home to form a private shrine or archive of sorts.

https://thehardtimes.net/culture/man-enters-10th-year-of-searching-for-perfect-surface-to-apply-band-sticker/

Ha! Admittedly that sentence was written partly tongue-in-cheek, and I don't mean the oral sort...

Stickers are a bit like promo postcards in that respect. They're there to serve a purpose but the pressure to find the perfect moment for it means you'd hesitate to actually use it. So yes, most just file them away unused in a shoebox. Actually, when was the last time anyone actually sent out a postcard? They're not free to post, they're often illegible to read (handwriting is a dying art) and even if they were readable you wouldn't want the postman to casually glance over it, especially if it had some tempting or dubious artwork on the other side. I've even seen some that are still produced these days don't even have space on the back to write an address and message! Still, the uniformity and constraint of them is something to appreciate beyond the retro/novelty value, and they hold up better than a throwaway paper flyer. And like the entertaining satirical article above suggests, they're probably more abundant than you think given the costs to manufacture them. So if you're including them as extras with a package, don't be stingy. And certainly don't make it the selling point to making a release "special" or "limited" in any way.

I think the last genuine postcard I received out of the blue was one from Eric Lunde sometime after placing an order with him. Just a simple one to advertise new releases. A nice unexpected surprise to find in my letterbox given we're on other sides of the pond. I can't say that I sent him one back in return though.
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« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2020, 01:28:38 PM »

etc.

Jees
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