Paypal alternative

Started by Leatherface, December 08, 2018, 10:35:15 AM

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Leatherface

Tired about Paypal i'm looking for one alternative to replace it.

Someone know Skrill?

Soloman Tump


XXX

op was fucked by paypal (see ripoff thread). as always paypal sided w buyer over seller without need of much if any proof.

on topic, i know of no alternative that is so widely used.

bogskaggmannen

Bank transfer, at least for europeans. Much better rates and no fees for anyone. Paypal rates are hilarious, plus their fees.

Theodore

Does registered shipping make any difference at Paypal policy in benefit of the seller ? I mean buyer cant claim i never recieved it. Is Paypal so in favour of buyers regarding "damage" ? I guess buyer should provide photos of the damage at least ...
"ἀθάνατοι θνητοί, θνητοὶ ἀθάνατοι, ζῶντες τὸν ἐκείνων θάνατον, τὸν δὲ ἐκείνων βίον τεθνεῶτες"

deutscheasphalt

(This in regards to Germany, not sure if there's differences across countries)
If the buyer claims to not have received the package, seller must prove to Paypal that it's been sent. Without registered shipping this is impossible and Paypal will refund buyer at seller's expense. As an official seller it's advisable to ship registered to buyers who aren't trustworthy. As private seller it doesn't matter since Paypal for friends payments can't be claimed back anyways, so buyer should specifically request registered shipping in case private seller isn't trustworthy.
Damage to package is shipping company responsibility. As there's good chance that items inside are damaged too, buyer should not accept the damaged package without filing a claim with the delivery service before signing it and then work with the seller to clarify responsibilites. In my experience this is just bad luck and rarely happens. If a package is severely damaged and the delivery guy refuses to record the incident, I as buyer would not accept the package and have it sent back.
Damage to items without visible outside damage on packaging is always seller responsibility as they have to ensure all items are protected from rough handling by delivery service. However, it is very hard to prove for the buyer that items were indeed damaged due to poor packaging. I've had buyers deliberately damage items after receiving them just to try to get refunded (very few cases and no people I work with regularly). At least in Germany, this does not work since Paypal is not a law court institution who could decide those matters based on hearsay. So what they do sometimes - because they're making shittons of money from fees anyways - is to refund both buyer and seller to make them "happy" and keep them hooked to Paypal as it's so "easy to use".
So yeah, I agree, Paypal mostly decides in benefit of the buyer which is not surprising as they are paying the fees. If you as seller read a bit about local consumer laws, you will have a better stance with outrageous refund disputes. Paypal is not above the law. I hate it, and I always encourage EU buyers to use bank transfer if feasible as it's almost just as quick if you use online banking. Most buyers want it the "easy" Paypal way despite the fees, but I'm not convinced that companies who want you to get rid of your money more and more easily and quickly have your best interests in mind.

vomitgore

I guess it would make a difference, if the seller stated that he is not responsible for lost packages on his Discogs or webpage. From a legal perspective, it would make that part of the "business contract". Not sure if that would make PayPal more seller-friendly, though.
Regarding alternatives, the situation is kind of bleak. Many German BM distros have recently been banned from Paypal due to political content and none seem to have found good alternative means of fast and international transaction.

deutscheasphalt

That's interesting, I was not aware of those bans.
But yeah, stating something in terms of conditions doesn't make it legal. As an official seller you're always responsible for loss or damage by law and you pass on that responsibility to the delivery company by using registered shipping.
Over here customers even have 14 days cancellation right on the purchase contract without need of providing any reason.

online prowler

#8
Note: The Customs sticker CN22 which is to be attached to packages for content declartion now carries a tracking number as well - at leat on my burg. While a new system in the EU, it is possible to use, but not always updated throughout transit. In any case, it function as a proof of shipment and is a valued extra documentation when shipping orders international. Worth checking out. As a seller one should and need to be able to document shipment - either by tracking or minimum postal reciepts. If non is available package is as good as not sent.

Theodore

I havent opened an e-bank account but hearing there is no fee for transfers in EU i am quite surprised and i ll ask about it. As a buyer i am tired of Paypal too. They have no competition, there is no alternative, they know it and their fees and rates are a robbery regarding what they really offer, nothing ! A fucking middleman that steal us all. Especially if there is a currency conversion their total share is around 10% of the paid amount. 5% more expensive rate than the current + 5% fee on the seller -it's 5, isnt it ?- .
"ἀθάνατοι θνητοί, θνητοὶ ἀθάνατοι, ζῶντες τὸν ἐκείνων θάνατον, τὸν δὲ ἐκείνων βίον τεθνεῶτες"

bitewerksMTB

Quote from: online prowler on December 09, 2018, 06:43:38 PM
Note: The Customs sticker CN22 which is to be attached to packages for content declartion now carries a tracking number as well...

The Customs form number from the U.S. also tracks. I sent a package to Russia a couple of weeks ago & checked the form # on usps.com & it tracked every step of the way from leaving the U.S. to clearing Russian customs. Kinda surprised me as the last package I sent to Russia was Registered & it didn't do shit. Someone at the P.O. told me Reg. doesn't do anything anymore including travel under lock and key. I don't know if that's true but, at least, the Customs form number can be used. I always enter it as tracking in PayPal and Discogs so the customer can't say they didn't receive any notification.

ligature impression

Quote from: bitewerksMTB on December 09, 2018, 08:30:45 PMI always enter it as tracking in PayPal and Discogs so the customer can't say they didn't receive any notification.
I do the same with Discogs. I've basically done all US and especially overseas shipping from PayPal through the paypal.com/shiplabel/create if not directly from orders for a while now. Tracking info is decent from US to Europe with a reasonable amount of detail (held in customs, out for delivery, etc.). I haven't had issues yet, but if there was a dispute, I have the evidence that the buyer-provided address was on the label and the tracking says it was delivered. Not sure if paypal would care anyway if there was a buyer dispute, but that's maybe as good as it could get as far as evidence goes.

Thor

Quote from: deutscheasphalt on December 09, 2018, 11:39:33 AM
If you as seller read a bit about local consumer laws, you will have a better stance with outrageous refund disputes. Paypal is not above the law.

Most jurisdictions go by the same legal principles (in theory) and the prevailing principle in contracts law is usually the freedom to negotiate the terms in the way you choose. The interplay between this principle and consumer law is usually just in the favor of the consumer. Paypal should therefore be able to make "outrageous terms" which the seller would be bound by, no matter how much he'd quote local consumer laws.

Urban Noise

Quote from: Theodore on December 09, 2018, 06:58:54 PM
I havent opened an e-bank account but hearing there is no fee for transfers in EU i am quite surprised and i ll ask about it. As a buyer i am tired of Paypal too. They have no competition, there is no alternative, they know it and their fees and rates are a robbery regarding what they really offer, nothing ! A fucking middleman that steal us all. Especially if there is a currency conversion their total share is around 10% of the paid amount. 5% more expensive rate than the current + 5% fee on the seller -it's 5, isnt it ?- .

At this point I think they charge what the fuck they want. As a seller they charge me 7% most of the times, sometimes more!
Go figure their math.
New Approach Records
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Theodore

Quote from: Theodore on December 09, 2018, 06:58:54 PM
I havent opened an e-bank account but hearing there is no fee for transfers in EU i am quite surprised and i ll ask about it. As a buyer i am tired of Paypal too. They have no competition, there is no alternative, they know it and their fees and rates are a robbery regarding what they really offer, nothing ! A fucking middleman that steal us all. Especially if there is a currency conversion their total share is around 10% of the paid amount. 5% more expensive rate than the current + 5% fee on the seller -it's 5, isnt it ?- .

Activated my e-banking yesterday. Today found out the harsh truth. Too good to be true. Tried to send 960 SEK. Below i copy-paste part of my email to other guy about my bank :

QuoteThe case is my bank and i guess every greek bank are thieves as well, bigger than Paypal. I chose to be charged only with my bank's "expenses" and not of both banks. There wasnt an option to not be charged at all haha. Conclusion : Currency exchange rate is better than Paypal but they charge me a 3 euro fee for that exchange, which makes it completely [!] equal to Paypal ! For larger payments, at least above 100 euro, banks' convertion rates and fee added will be better than Paypal convertion, but not for smaller ones, seems happened i was exactly on that mathematic limit ! On top of that they charge me another 3 euro fee for the transfer. Total 6 euro on fees. I cancelled. Hate to say but Paypal is better than my bank.

So even if seller reduces the price by cutting the Paypal fee, for small orders Paypal comes cheaper, for medium pretty much the same. For hundreds yes, bank should be better, the more the better, although i dont know how their fee for the transfer increases.
"ἀθάνατοι θνητοί, θνητοὶ ἀθάνατοι, ζῶντες τὸν ἐκείνων θάνατον, τὸν δὲ ἐκείνων βίον τεθνεῶτες"