Special Interest
October 21, 2019, 12:48:50 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Login Register  

Pages: 1 ... 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 ... 35
  Print  
Author Topic: BLACK METAL  (Read 105821 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
FreakAnimalFinland
MODERATOR
Administrator
Overkill user
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 4159



WWW
« Reply #255 on: September 09, 2017, 08:43:04 AM »

It is extremely hard to make comprehensive lists of what would be good.
And also, what are the actual merit of each release.
Of course if qualification is simply "IMO" = In my opinion, then it is easier.

I'm not sure how 2nd wave and 3rd wave should be separated? It would be foolish to separate them because of sound or style?
If thinking 1st wave as originators who were hardly ever called BM back then by build foundation. 2nd wave as material what was usually actually at least sometimes called black metal and establishing clearly different form. Happening roughly in turn of 80/90's, perhaps bands like Katharsis, Moonblood etc already belong to "3rd wave" and entered already existing genre. They are already among bands who are the effect caused by existence of "2nd wave". Those who were active in time, can confirm the vast difference of bands starting in late 80's to '92, compared to those who started '93, 94, 95...  For people who observe in now, it seems very much "the same" and belong to same timeframe, but most older guys I talk to, conclude differently.


Perhaps it is personal taste most of all.
List is good, yet I'd like to include many utterly important 2nd wave BM that sounds very different from mentioned ones: Profanatica, Impalez Nazarene, Necromantia, Rotting Christ, Samael, Master's Hammer. Pick up first 1-3 albums of each and they belong to undisputed classics.

Releases like "Taste Our German Steel", gained it's infamy mostly by being ltd 100 copies LP. Not by merit of being anywhere near the best of Moonblood releases. From "suicidal" sound, one could not forget bands like: Strid. Or from "noisy" bm, ILDJARN. Setting standards long before there was "subgenre" for material like that. Listening both bands now, it's quite odd that band like Strid is so old with such material. Being released same year as Det Som Engan Var and Hvis Lyset Tar Oss, but years before Filosofem. And like decade before popularization of "depressive suicidal bm". 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwa-3THi90c

Of course this is purely personal choice. It seems obvious that place where one lives and era when he started to listen material, has big impact on anyone's favorites. You know, ask a Swede about this, and they'd be probably curious why only couple Swedish bands mentioned despite country's huge input for BM. I never been fan of "usual" swedish stuff. What I rather find different from my own taste, is lack of bands from Poland. Mighty Veles, obviously is there, but one could make pretty much equally big list from Polish bands alone. Of course it doesn't make sense to "list everything that exists" as it soon makes existence of list pointless.
Logged

E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net
Thor
moderate user
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 54



« Reply #256 on: September 09, 2017, 06:04:36 PM »

I agree completely to everything you said. I am ofc speaking only from heart with respect to how I have observed the scene and what I find important for newcomers to the genre(notwithstanding that there are numerous other important records to supplement this list, f.e. the mighty contract from RC etc). the concept of a 3rd wave is entirely debatable and not something which has been concretely formed.
Anyway, felt like keeping the list short and sweet for newcomers and open for supplementation. I'm certainly no authority on this matter rather then anyone else but I hope this becomes useful for those interested in the genre.
Btw, while much of this has been personal preferentials, I'll agree that Strid is probably the best dsbm out there, just didn't think of it while writing this list. You can actually hear bands like Nargaroth completely aping Strid riffs and getting away with it because way too few know about the band.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 03:12:45 AM by Thor » Logged
gasskammer
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 47


« Reply #257 on: September 10, 2017, 02:46:37 AM »

I found noise music by listening to Black Metal in the early nineties. Going to different recordstores to find the most vile music possible, suddenly they had some Cold Meat stuff hidden behind bargain bin Ildjarn cds. Those were not so popular back then. Have no hate for NWN, i think he releases shitloads of good records. And still answers emails from regular customers. If i should recommend some new Black Metal i would say Ultra Silvam from Sweden, and The third eye Rapists. Raging and hateful music.
Logged
Euro Trash Bazooka
Heavy user
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 332



« Reply #258 on: September 10, 2017, 04:03:08 AM »

I quite agree with Mikko when it comes to lists like that.

I basically stopped discussing black metal with pretty much everyone besides a very few selected friends because while I wouldn't say jumping into a more mainstream scale "perverted" black metal, I think the interest it got outside of the metal scene when the bubble burst in the late 90's, early 00's and especially when the Internet and peer-to-peer exploded (things got even worse after people heard about "Lords Of Chaos" and held it for absolute truth) turned everyone into a black metal specialist. Lists are ok. I love them. What infuriates me though, is lack of context in most of what I read nowadays. I was still a teen back then, but I remember context. I remember which bands were on metal magazines' covers in the second half of the 90's (in Europe at least), but people forget them, or never mention them for some odd reasons. I'm not particularly fan of most of them but I never see Marduk, Dimmu Borgir or Cradle Of Filth ever get mentioned in current lists of influencial bands. Their tshirt sales probably outsold any BM bands' ever besides Burzum's, Mayhem's or Darkthrone's for obvious reasons though (anyone remembers the infamous "Fuck Me Jesus" or"Jesus Was A Cunt" tshirts?) I feel like the influencial bands should be the ones on Osmose, Season Of Mist or even Nuclear Blast for instance, because they got huge distribution and more people heard them. Where are all the "Battles In The North" (first proper brutal black metal album I believe?), "In The Nightside Eclipse" or "Dusk And Her Embrace" (which popularised the use of synths in BM from the second wave onwards?), "Hammerheart" (birth of viking metal?) or mentions of Thorns' recordings? (who modern Mayhem and modern black metal in general owe a lot to.) Aren't these important facts in the evolution of the genre?

So when I read that Proclamation or Goatpenis are influencial, I'm always like "wtf." They're influencial for people on the NWN forum, which feels like the biggest, most scoured metal forum in the world to me right now. But while a bunch of people came on it becausd they loved metal, I think a bunch of the people on it registered because they found an interest in record collecting (but it could have been toys or stamps instead in the first place) and they swallow almost every NWN release without questionning anything. Yosuke does a great job at what he does but his reissue of Citizen's Arrest LP was probably the most important one context-wise since he reissued "INRI" yet it flew over most of his regular customers' heads because it didn't sound like Blasphemophager or Sadomator. People on there have probably never heard "Enthrone Darkness Triumphant" but think Mjölnir's album is important because Hendrik Möbius says so and he has a good way with words. Etc etc...

So tl;dr but I think lack of context is a pity. I don't see any of the Concilium bands mentioned either yet I feel like the Finnish scene, otherwise oddball-sounding (in a good way), owes them quite of its current unity in sound (I'm speaking for the most melodic bands obviously.)

Finally, I think that there's only a general 3rd wave, or numerous waves, that encompass every post Internet/mainstream exposition of the genre's band as it is constantly evolving and lines with other genres get blurred. I find it a very interesting phenomenon by the way. I don't know many genres of music that keep bringing something new to the table or mutating (whether one agrees or not with these changes) almost 40 years after their inception.

Sorry for the massive post. That's the reason why I don't like discussing this stuff as a whole. I'm back to shutting up and not ranting and yelling at clouds. Also, I particularly recommend any BM newcomer to check Metalion's anthology of his Slayer zines.

EDIT: And I disagree with Katharsis belonging to the 2nd wave because, although they do love Darkthrone, they got famous thanks to NoEvDia and with their later releases, which show a rather personal take on that style in my humble opinion.

And I believe nobody cared about Inquisition before they got releases on SSP or NWN fairly recently. They certainly can't be considered as an influencial 2nd wave band as nobody knew them pre-Internet times. Same with the LLN bands.

And I think some Australian bands like Corpse Molestation or Bestial Warlust belong to the bestial BM list before bands like Proclamation. Bestial Summoning definitely belongs there as well.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 04:14:49 AM by Euro Trash Bazooka » Logged

DROIT DIVIN: https://droitdivin1.bandcamp.com/

CRYPTOFASCISME / VIOLENT SHOGUN /
ETC: https://yesdivulgation.bandcamp.com/
Thor
moderate user
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 54



« Reply #259 on: September 10, 2017, 04:47:35 AM »

Yeah if you want to identify with release who sell a lot under the banner of bm go ahead and male a list. I'm not trying to assume your position on this matter, I'm trying to encapsulate an actual inkling on the albums which will remain canon for bm.  Imo I don't think Dimmu borgir or CoF does that regardless of their sale. This is exactly why I don't want to rely on sales/distribution but rather actual impact although I admit that without concrete numbers it is hard to document (which is why I go by heart). Inquisition didn't have enough followers in your mind? wtf? this is canon work which very few would dispute. I started my response with the intention of making a starting point for some but I feel like further responses might damage the purpose. nv, the bollocks.
Logged
FreakAnimalFinland
MODERATOR
Administrator
Overkill user
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 4159



WWW
« Reply #260 on: September 10, 2017, 09:27:26 AM »

Popularity is hardly best way to measure influence for core of "genre". It would be like thinking Offspring and Bad Religion being most crucial bands for punk? I doubt it. They may be popular, but irrelevant for many perspectives.

In context of Black Metal, one can observe that even in late 90's, there could be demo tape of 100 copies, what would ignite sort of turn in history of music style and idea itself. Something what many albums that were pressed 10000, did not result.


I'm not concerned of lists or many types of subjective views, nor sharing information. What I am usually annoyed by, is seemingly utmost lack of understanding in BM history or core ideas are intrinsic. Things that mean rejecting those, exclude band from BM without shadow of a doubt.
Insisting calling anything black metal. Using "blackened-". In its vast and diverse forms, there are certainly boundaries when material simply is not BM. Even if it would share couple superficial qualities a'la shrieking vocals or "distorted sound" or blastbeat. As soon as this is said, that there are bands and ideas that without shadow of a doubt are NOT bm, you got people jumping up and down yelling about elitism, closed mindedness, bigotry, prejudice and whatever. And you can just conclude: point proven.

But if just settle for recommendations of bands, I'm always rather surprised why EVILFEAST is not more popular than it is. Phenomenal project from Poland. Certainly some of their CD's are high priced, but it's not the band what would appear often in discussions. Latest album of Wolfnacht is unexplainably amazing. It's hard to point what exactly makes it so good. Availability of the album is rather scarse due its lyrical content, but it's worth to hunt. Evilfeast, in other hand, has had recent re-issues even as double LP sets for those who refuse to buy CD's - which for a lot of BM is best format.
Logged

E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net
Leewar
moderate user
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 98



« Reply #261 on: September 10, 2017, 12:30:02 PM »

Cradle of filths debut is probably one of the most influentuial BM albums out there, and one of the best of that era. Its just that most people wont admit it, though i bet they started their BM 'career' off the back of it.

Logged

Euro Trash Bazooka
Heavy user
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 332



« Reply #262 on: September 10, 2017, 12:46:02 PM »

I don't know about The Offspring (always hated them) but Bad Religion have definitely had a huge influence on a lot of punk bands, at least in one particular part of the punk culture. There are tribute albums, album cover rip-offs and band names inspired by them!

I love Evilfeast as well and always thought they were underrated.
Logged

DROIT DIVIN: https://droitdivin1.bandcamp.com/

CRYPTOFASCISME / VIOLENT SHOGUN /
ETC: https://yesdivulgation.bandcamp.com/
Deadpriest
Diehard user
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


Ignorance is strength.


« Reply #263 on: September 10, 2017, 12:56:02 PM »

A completely hilarious parody video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOibIxl3dLo
Logged

My book of poetry: http://www.histergrant.com/
Andrew McIntosh
Overkill user
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 2010



« Reply #264 on: September 10, 2017, 02:27:18 PM »

You can't parody bad Black Metal videos, they parody themselves. It's great to see Peste Noir, for example, continue the tradition -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LLNTURw_7Y

It sounds like they want to be the Black Metal version of The Tiger Lillies and looks like they want to be the Black Metal version of GG Allin.
Logged

"Unless suffering is the direct and immediate object of life, our existence must entirely fail of its aim." - Schopenhauer.
ypatingasisburys
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 20



« Reply #265 on: September 11, 2017, 08:12:23 AM »

You can't parody bad Black Metal videos, they parody themselves. It's great to see Peste Noir, for example, continue the tradition -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LLNTURw_7Y

It sounds like they want to be the Black Metal version of The Tiger Lillies and looks like they want to be the Black Metal version of GG Allin.

I never understood how or why this project ever warranted any attention or interest, utter shit.
Logged
Andrew McIntosh
Overkill user
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 2010



« Reply #266 on: September 11, 2017, 10:22:40 AM »

Someone will come along to defend them I'm sure. I grant they have some legitimate talent with their instruments but I also find them unlistenable.

One thing I just can't get into is this crossover with European folk music. For one, I hate European folk music. For another, I can't think of two more disparate genres than Metal of any kind, let alone Black Metal, and folk music. I know all the ideological connections so I don't need someone to jump in and bang on about that but musically you're looking at two completely different things. As usual I could name one or two exceptions that I like to the rule but as usual the rule remains. Folk and Metal should get divorced immediately. Fuck acoustic instruments, Metal should be electric.
Logged

"Unless suffering is the direct and immediate object of life, our existence must entirely fail of its aim." - Schopenhauer.
Rhan-Tegoth
Guest
« Reply #267 on: September 11, 2017, 11:32:42 AM »

One thing I just can't get into is this crossover with European folk music. For one, I hate European folk music. For another, I can't think of two more disparate genres than Metal of any kind, let alone Black Metal, and folk music. I know all the ideological connections so I don't need someone to jump in and bang on about that but musically you're looking at two completely different things. As usual I could name one or two exceptions that I like to the rule but as usual the rule remains. Folk and Metal should get divorced immediately. Fuck acoustic instruments, Metal should be electric.

Completely agree! I remember when the first Ulver came out a lot of people went crazy, always found it extremely soft stuff with gay vocals. Same goes for Storm, IMHO the most useless side-project ever, even all three participants rightfully feel ashamed about it now. My exception to the rule would be Isengard, because there are only few pure folkish songs. Can't get into any Neofolk either.

@ Peste Noire: The first three albums were ok although only in small doses because of French language. After that this band got so much smoke blown up their asses that they behave now like narcissistic Hip-Hoppers and still a lot of people applaud them, can't understand why. Their videos, trailers and "documentaries" (= some obedient moron from their entourage filming them) are extremely embarrassing, they are trying very hard.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 11:38:36 AM by Rhan-Tegoth » Logged
Andrew McIntosh
Overkill user
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 2010



« Reply #268 on: September 11, 2017, 11:51:09 AM »

Oh fuck, that docco…

Listening to PN a bit more tonight, they come across as clones of Shining. I don't mind Shining when they're actually playing Metal but all the bits of decoration they put on their music shits me.
Logged

"Unless suffering is the direct and immediate object of life, our existence must entirely fail of its aim." - Schopenhauer.
FallOfNature
user
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 162


« Reply #269 on: September 11, 2017, 12:13:05 PM »

The split tape with Sombre Chemin and debut album are recordings I can appreciate and even spin on occasion. Can't stand anything after that though.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 ... 35
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.188 seconds with 19 queries.