Quote from: Ashmonger on November 20, 2014, 12:49:46 AM
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on November 19, 2014, 04:50:41 PMI read it all. It's almost semi-worth it. Perhaps because it shows that something like Earth First! appears to have online moderator guy, who certainly isn't earth FIRST, but appears to set good set of humanism and political agenda before people qualify to movement of his desire.
Decent reading on subject matter may be also Unabombers old comments how enviromental movement became shit, when all sort of general good-doers infiltrated movement. Suddenly hierarchy of importance appears totally different.
Never seen protestors outside or inside live gigs.
Read it all as well and when he started about ecology, I was like: what the fuck does that have to do with Death In June.
Then I started to see what he was getting at. For years already, I've been hearing people say things like: "how can you be pro-ecology and be right-wing at the same time?" (Rhetorical question in general, not directly to me.) And I never understood what the problem with it would be... I do know now why they say this (which has to do with colonies and multinationals etc...), but still, I don't see why it would be impossible to say that you want to preserve your own culture etc. while still wanting every nation on earth to take care of the planet...
So, yeah, they're not open minded enough to understand why it's fine for people to be pro-ecology and against immigration for example, hahaha...
Quote from: Jordan on November 20, 2014, 04:50:34 AM
EF! was originally against immigration, until what was called the redneck/hippie split in the late eighties, when the movement became thoroughly leftist, which was better in a few regards, and much worse in many more. On the redneck side, you had people like Foreman, and Abbey, whilst on the left there were people like Barri, who, in her efforts to unite environmentalists and loggers, was enough of a threat to scare the FBI enough to try to kill her.
Certainly for most simple minded people logic remains: left represent all good, right represents all evil and selfish. And therefore latter couldn't be into environmental issues, as it may limit possibilities of business.
However, concept of what actually is included in such vague term as "left" or "right", seems to vary in many countries. But to take a look into history of environmental issues, over here - Finland that is - it was born purely from 1800's nationalism. Similarities in Britain. First ever laws to protect wildlife, punish for cruelty towards animals etc. was created by Germany with power of newborn state what would approach world beyond materialism. Even if one couldn't deny that from those days, things have progressed further by hard work from people in all sorts of political spectrum, it seems foolish to try to whitewash to real roots and claim as if we're facing some crisis when so called "right wing" is assumed to "infiltrate" and "misuse" the cause for benefit of their dubious political cause. Oh pleeease...
But certainly this type of confusion has lead that many people in right wing, in leeches in cold business and retards in the world of thugs and even "normal people" always sigh in displeasure when "green hippies" always create obstacles and whine about things. For us here in Finland, it's good that it's not all all just eco/gayrights/streetparty type of fusion, (where first appears to be forgotten while two others gain popularity), but also some high profile mainstream celebrities like Linkola is widely acknowledged figure, and his famous messages can be pretty damn cold and harsh.
Of course, even him stating the obvious, will generate butthurt. His famous quote about full lifeboat (and good-doers tendency to take few more than should, and therefore drown everybody) often resulted bitter remarks about who then qualifies to be in the boat. Who selects? On what basis? This humanist dilemma always reminds the true flaccid potential of "good-doer" to solve anything significant, as they'll run out of enemies, so called "bad guys" before problems are solved.
