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Author Topic: General butthurt & pc faggotry etc  (Read 499246 times)
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bitewerksMTB
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« Reply #2145 on: June 24, 2018, 09:08:31 PM »

https://noisey.vice.com/en_us/article/vbqkmx/theres-no-room-in-metal-for-racists-abusers-and-bigots

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Zeno Marx
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« Reply #2146 on: June 24, 2018, 10:58:16 PM »

This must be a popular topic in art journalism.  I don't have a problem with the conversation, but I do find it unsavory that it could be nothing more than a trend.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/this-music-critic-says-its-time-to-update-our-art-consumption-ethical-standards
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Andrew McIntosh
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« Reply #2147 on: June 25, 2018, 07:49:28 AM »

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There are a lot of metal bands in the world; asking yourself, “are these riffs really worth it?” is a small step, but a crucial one.

I agree. Indeed, the only question worth asking.
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« Reply #2148 on: June 25, 2018, 08:49:08 AM »

This must be a popular topic in art journalism.  I don't have a problem with the conversation, but I do find it unsavory that it could be nothing more than a trend.
People with some kind of influence over a field of human endeavor trying to exclude others from that field, increasing their own status in the process? Reference to ethics, narrowly and hypocritically defined common sense and self-righteous sermonizing being used as tools in this effort? I don't think that type of behaviour will go the way of the Woolly Mammoth any time soon.
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Andrew McIntosh
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« Reply #2149 on: June 25, 2018, 04:24:30 PM »

Quote from: Zeno Marx link=topic=4525.msg73611#msg73611 [url
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/this-music-critic-says-its-time-to-update-our-art-consumption-ethical-standards[/url]

"For decades, if not centuries, art critics have always repeated an odd dictum: always seperate the art from the artist".

Leaving aside the obvious fact that art criticism has only existed for the last century, if that, this is bullshit. And leaving aside the fact that this very issue has been discussed ad nauseam for years, the reasons for and context of art has changed so much over human pre/history that all we can talk about now is how it, as a stupid commodity, is perceived by stupid consumers like ourselves and these delightful art critics, the latter who have a vested interest in blowing chunks of bullshit like this.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 05:27:18 PM by Andrew McIntosh » Logged

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« Reply #2150 on: June 25, 2018, 05:17:48 PM »

This must be a popular topic in art journalism.  I don't have a problem with the conversation, but I do find it unsavory that it could be nothing more than a trend.

I wonder if some good scans of Orcustus 'zines circulate online? Emperor's Faust edited that good old zine from beginning of 90's. Perhaps issue #2, page 14, "words of wisdom" should be scanned and tweeted to Kelly. Or why not metal-sucks.net, who could turn it to hilarious text of metal celebrity using "n-word" and advocating genocide.

I wonder if there is actually any Black Metal band in the world, who'd want to be supported by sites such as Noisey? Her quest to not cover dubious BM bands is something I could fully appreciate.
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Zeno Marx
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« Reply #2151 on: June 25, 2018, 11:39:28 PM »

Quote from: Zeno Marx link=topic=4525.msg73611#msg73611 [url
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/this-music-critic-says-its-time-to-update-our-art-consumption-ethical-standards[/url]

"For decades, if not centuries, art critics have always repeated an odd dictum: always seperate the art from the artist".

Leaving aside the obvious fact that art criticism has only existed for the last century
Is it really only that recent?
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Andrew McIntosh
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« Reply #2152 on: June 26, 2018, 02:35:23 AM »

I would guess so, comparatively. Did the ancient Egyptians have art critics? Prehistoric cave wall painters? Chinese calligraphy masters? I don't doubt that there'd be a lot of fussing over what artisans produced during the medieval period for churches and cathedrals but I don't think it'd be in the same category as "do we really want William of Canterbury carving gargoyles for our church? His attitude towards women is problematic".
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aububs
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« Reply #2153 on: June 26, 2018, 08:25:28 PM »

I would guess so, comparatively. Did the ancient Egyptians have art critics? Prehistoric cave wall painters? Chinese calligraphy masters? I don't doubt that there'd be a lot of fussing over what artisans produced during the medieval period for churches and cathedrals but I don't think it'd be in the same category as "do we really want William of Canterbury carving gargoyles for our church? His attitude towards women is problematic".

more like the last 3 centuries

art criticism as we know it today began around half way thru the 18th century with the royal academy shows in london. this is around when art really came into the public domain and there are records of newspaper reviews of art exhibitions and such from that time. and yes specifically there would have been criticism and comment around the representation of women in art and the taboos that go along with that. they probably got hung up on details that we wouldn't even consider nowadays.

most of the attitudes of the modern world would have germinated in the 18th century
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Zeno Marx
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« Reply #2154 on: June 26, 2018, 09:54:40 PM »

Thanks, aububs.  That makes sense.  I'm very much surprised it is that youthful, but I was having a difficult time believing art criticism wasn't present specifically during The Enlightenment.  I know almost nothing about art history.  I'm one of those dullards for whom PBS makes all those art documentaries.
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aububs
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« Reply #2155 on: June 26, 2018, 10:54:55 PM »

my wife is an 18th century art historian and curator so i'm cribbing from her...
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THE RITA HN
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« Reply #2156 on: June 27, 2018, 12:42:59 AM »

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I guess it comes down what kind of band you want to be a fan of?  A band that is sincerely dangerous and sketchy in multiple ways in their private life for the complete package, or safer people referred to as 'hardcore' because they wear black clothes, socially drink, do drugs, come up with 'dark' riffs, and create various 'depressing' and 'nihilistic' album covers.  I'm sure there were yacht rock artists in the 70s that led way gnarlier lifestyles than some contemporary black/death/grind band that plays the drums 'really fast'.
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Andrew McIntosh
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« Reply #2157 on: June 27, 2018, 01:31:41 AM »

art criticism as we know it today began around half way thru the 18th century with the royal academy shows in london.

Fair enough. That would make it very much a product of modernism, I suppose. The whole liberal humanist notion that everything can be analysed and categorised in some kind of ultimately rational way. And since rationality is so malleable it's susceptible to current trends. In a couple of generations' time it'll be other quibbles.
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« Reply #2158 on: June 27, 2018, 04:46:14 PM »

This must be a popular topic in art journalism.  I don't have a problem with the conversation, but I do find it unsavory that it could be nothing more than a trend.

I wonder if some good scans of Orcustus 'zines circulate online? Emperor's Faust edited that good old zine from beginning of 90's. Perhaps issue #2, page 14, "words of wisdom" should be scanned and tweeted to Kelly. Or why not metal-sucks.net, who could turn it to hilarious text of metal celebrity using "n-word" and advocating genocide.

I wonder if there is actually any Black Metal band in the world, who'd want to be supported by sites such as Noisey? Her quest to not cover dubious BM bands is something I could fully appreciate.

I still have the originals somewhere. If I find them I can try to scan these, but cannot promise.
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FreakAnimalFinland
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« Reply #2159 on: June 27, 2018, 05:09:50 PM »

This must be a popular topic in art journalism.  I don't have a problem with the conversation, but I do find it unsavory that it could be nothing more than a trend.

I wonder if some good scans of Orcustus 'zines circulate online? Emperor's Faust edited that good old zine from beginning of 90's. Perhaps issue #2, page 14, "words of wisdom" should be scanned and tweeted to Kelly. Or why not metal-sucks.net, who could turn it to hilarious text of metal celebrity using "n-word" and advocating genocide.

I wonder if there is actually any Black Metal band in the world, who'd want to be supported by sites such as Noisey? Her quest to not cover dubious BM bands is something I could fully appreciate.

I have then here as well... just considering whether its good idea or not, haha..

I still have the originals somewhere. If I find them I can try to scan these, but cannot promise.
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