Noise and Starting From Scratch

[Andrew McIntosh]

In the gear section of this forum, I notice a few questions asking what's "the best way" to produce whatever kind of sound or effect. While understanding that that's one of the forum's purposes, I've got to ask - what happened to experimentation? What happened to people just getting their hands on any gear and just fucking around and finding out?

I know when some people are starting doing Noise they have no idea how to do it. That bit's alright. It's just that I also get the impression that some people just want ideas handed to them so they can just copy them.

I wonder if it's some new development in information in consumer culture in general - everything has to be explained. Like all those tutorials on YT that explain pretty much everything from how to put on a t-shirt to how to build a house out of horse shit.

Or maybe it's that everything that can be done in Noise has been done and it's a classic case of just repeat repeat repeat ad nauseum? The ideas are all exhausted. I'm quite prepared to believe that. Just how much can any one genre innovate anyway?

[pidgeons]

I rarely look in the gear section but I had to smile because of the three "best xxx for xxx?" type of threads. It reminds me about video game youtube, where even single player games have a huge load of videos on "best teams", what "gear is meta" on "which character to play" to progress fast.
I don't think it is an issue, there is always a teacher - student relationship in any craft. Creative people will be able to work on solid ideas themselves after a bit of inspiration. Surely that counts for making noise aswell. I am sure the ideas are far from exhausted.

The language is just a reflection on what we learn from the almighty algorithm. Clickbait works, so that is what we read everywhere.

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[Zeno Marx]

I read a couple of audio gear forums (because in one of my dreamlands, one of my hobbies is finding dumpstered stereos and refurbishing them), and there is a consistent stream of people asking, "I have these two receivers.  Which one is better?"  They do this with speakers, turntables, decks, CD players, etc.  The common sense response, or at least you would think it was common sense, is, "Which one sounds better to you?" or "Which one do you like more?"  I guess they're out there scrounging for gear, but they can't even make up their own subjective mind on which they prefer?  They either can't be bothered to hook them up, or maybe...and this is a depressing thought...it doesn't even occur to them to A/B listen and experiment with them.  Buying things.  Consuming things.  That's what is important.  Listening is...blah, whatever.  This is related to how I would response in the Last time bought the item the "difficult way" thread.  Buying the physical items is the important part.  Listening to them...not so much.  My hunch is this is all related.  Maybe because the shortening attention spans?  The hunt, the absorption, being resourceful...time investment is of low value and low consideration.  RIGHT NOW is the priority.

[expectorant]

It's just that I also get the impression that some people just want ideas handed to them so they can just copy them

I've worked with people where that was clearly the case. And instead of something like "shooting for an established artist's sound and finding their own along the way," these people weren't interested in experimentation. Explicit imitation was the name of the game, and they weren't even willing to put in the work required to make that happen. They just wanted the most direct route to mimicry ("make me sound like this"). To me, this all feels antithetical to the ethos of noise, a "genre" where idiosyncratic methods and isolated ideas are a huge part of what makes it exciting. Kind of ironic that in a field where freedom is an foundational element, some folks just want strict instructions. Maybe it's a "younger generation" thing?

Also, I've noticed there's a huge difference in character between (a) the people (especially those who are clearly just starting out) who've fixated on asking me questions about what kind of gear I use vs (b) everyone else.

[Balor/SS1535]

I would like to add that a willingness to experiment and find what works for you should apply to themes/motivating ideas just as much as the noise itself.

[theotherjohn]

I think a lot of newcomers see an established noise performer's table full of synths, mixers, pedals, cables, mics etc and think that they started with all that professional and expensive music equipment from day one, when the reality is they all probably experimented and got an initial grasp with exploring noise as teenagers/students with little-to-no-budget, using repurposed equipment that was obsolescent, abundant in quality and able to be damaged/broken with little financial or sentimental regret.

[Andrew McIntosh]

Just on the generational thing -

I know that it's the usual thing for young people to enthusiastically embrace something that excites them and want to sound like it exactly. I was the same. Always wanted to get the established Harsh Noise sound. Could never achieve it. What I achieved was my own way of doing things.

So maybe it's a case of younger potentials just finding their feet. There's nothing to say that someone posting "can anyone tell me how I can sound exactly like Pharmakon?" or whatever isn't going to, a few years later, come up with something everyone else is going to be impressed by.

Still - I can't help but be perturbed at how un self conscious it is. I was particularly inspired by the post recently that asked what's the best speakers to make feedback. I just thought, shit mate, get a cheap shit speaker and a cheap shit mic and go for broke. Have fun with it. Experiment with it. That's the kind of thing that I think makes the better Noise. It seems to me a bit sad that people are actually asking for "the best" way to create something that's been generated for decades now. Never mind "the best", do what you want to do.

All the lifers who are having their records discussed on the podcasts all started as young and stupid as anyone else. It's no crime to be young and stupid. It is a crime to stay that way. Do things your way and maybe others will consider it "the best" in time. Maybe not. But if you're going to do Noise, just fucking do it! It's about learning and getting ideas and inspiration, not wanting to re-hash Whitehouse or The Rita for the umpteenth bloody time.

(And yea, I agree it's the same with the themes. At least get a new sexual fetish).

[host body]

I think it's sensible to offer some advice regarding gear: it's all too easy to just fuck around inside a DAW with VST's and end up with uninspired and shitty Bandcamp noise. A decent mixer, some specific cheap pedals and the fundamentals of recording are the essentials and don't yet push anyone towards any specific sound

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Among guys who I communicate with, it is very usual that even so called "experts" talk about gear, share advice, share their doubts or critic against specific gear. It may not work in that very basic level at that point.

Just yesterday, I was at local site, that has two big kind of satellite dish looking thing located on opposite end of field. when you talk to one, it collects the sound physically, focuses it into more compressed "beam of sound" and this goes over the field into other disc that again collects the sound waves, compresses it into center and despite long distance, volume is like you would talk with someone next to you. All acoustics & physics, no electricity involved. Long time idea has been that maybe bringing speaker or some acoustic sound objects to play and have recorder. Capture both field recordings of all the surroundings, but also this somewhat eerie decayed "sound transmission" that resembles old radio transmissions or such.

So, of course it ain't "noise strating from scracth", but kind of connoisseur level noise gear discussion hah.. Where discussion happens on theme of what can be used to get specific kind of sound, that would be unlike something you get from other things. People who hear the details, may recognize this is something, that can't be really replicated by just buying EQ and behringer delay.. but there is something other quality in sound, despite narrow frequency range and short tinny delay is audible.

I do understand some gear talk too, even on basic level. Think of as simple thing as delay pedal. If you would be at very beginning and you have no friends nearby, feel need of having delay pedal.. would it make more sense to ASK fellow noisehead, or look some shitty youtube guitar videos where they show how the delay works with rock riffs. Or just buy blindly relatively expensive pedals and find out it wasn't what you were looking for. The vast difference of Boss DD series digital delay vs... space echo replica vs. something else.  Even myself, I feel I need delay that is something between Boss DD and Mooer Ana Echo. Do I want to waste money just to get another that is same as either one. Not really. It needs to have specific quality that is somewhere between the two.

I think this above is result of OPTIONS TO BUY. I don't think in the 90's, noise was something that there was options to buy specific gear. Now that it is, it is not only generational difference, but difference created by new situation. Many questions would have not made any sense. Now you can can ask "I need random pulse generator.. any advice?". And you might soon have guy who knows what you mean, and can forward you to exact piece of gear that does that.

[Andrew McIntosh]

Gear specifically made for Noise is something I've never been interested in. It represents yet another lack of imagination, to me. It pre-determines what kind of sound you're going to get. And if it's a matter of just going, "what can I get to sound like this?" and just getting something made specifically for that, well, good luck and all but they haven't actually made an effort to achieve a sound, they've just paid someone else for it.

I prefer it when people either make gear themselves to get what they want or just struggle with gear to get some sound they eventually want. It's not like Noise requires very complex origins. Just farting through a megaphone can count. But if people can buy a specific "Fart Through A Megaphone Synth", well, fucking whatever.

It seems that with different options come different attitudes towards Noise. I always liked the challenge of producing sounds, and even the random element of it, coming up with something unexpected but desirable. But now it seems that people are very, very specific. It suggests a lack of risk-taking and just blatant acceptance of imitation and homogenisation. Not my bag, but if that's how it is, that's how it is.  

EDIT -

I think it's sensible to offer some advice regarding gear: it's all too easy to just fuck around inside a DAW with VST's and end up with uninspired and shitty Bandcamp noise. A decent mixer, some specific cheap pedals and the fundamentals of recording are the essentials and don't yet push anyone towards any specific sound

You're right and that's a valid point.

[Commander15]

I think it's sensible to offer some advice regarding gear: it's all too easy to just fuck around inside a DAW with VST's and end up with uninspired and shitty Bandcamp noise. A decent mixer, some specific cheap pedals and the fundamentals of recording are the essentials and don't yet push anyone towards any specific sound

I agree. As an newcomer in making noise, and in noise scene in general, it must say that gear advice that i had from i.e. Host Body, FreakAnimalFinland and others have been absolutely crucial in my personal development.

I have long background in conventional rock music and when i started to delve into noise / industrial, the main obstacle in starting the noise making was the abstract nature of noise and the sounds presented. I mean that i could easily spot the sounds that i liked but i didn't have any clue how those sounds were produced and recorded.

In guitar-oriented rock you can spot the sounds and effects, multitracking etc. used more easily than in noise. It's easy to dissect, let's say, how Radio Birdman achieved their guitar sounds in Radios Appear LP than how The Rita got those walls of noise that dominate the Magazine LP. Or how Aprapat processed and multitracked those junk metal recordings to achieve the sounds in Born Rare tape and so on.

[piisti]

I personally don't see what's the point to sound as someone else? For me this is an experiment sound. To try and found. But yeah I like to chat with guys about som tone and pedals maybe, but it is not a thing to follow. And this is not only that "noise" genre. Why do people use same plug-ins and sounds? To make copies? For what...?

[Leewar]

I see it like painting. Its fine to ask for recommendations on a brush or paints, but for fucks sake dont just try and paint your favourite painting.

[Phenol]

I see it like painting. Its fine to ask for recommendations on a brush or paints, but for fucks sake dont just try and paint your favourite painting.

I see it the same way and might add that to make that painting, it's likely you will have to know and master one or several tools and techniques that you may never be able to discover or learn on your own.

[W.K.]

In the gear section of this forum, I notice a few questions asking what's "the best way" to produce whatever kind of sound or effect. While understanding that that's one of the forum's purposes, I've got to ask - what happened to experimentation? What happened to people just getting their hands on any gear and just fucking around and finding out?

I know when some people are starting doing Noise they have no idea how to do it. That bit's alright. It's just that I also get the impression that some people just want ideas handed to them so they can just copy them.

I wonder if it's some new development in information in consumer culture in general - everything has to be explained. Like all those tutorials on YT that explain pretty much everything from how to put on a t-shirt to how to build a house out of horse shit.

Or maybe it's that everything that can be done in Noise has been done and it's a classic case of just repeat repeat repeat ad nauseum? The ideas are all exhausted. I'm quite prepared to believe that. Just how much can any one genre innovate anyway?

It's not like the old guard or more established artists never asked for advice early or later in their career, so why the hostility? If someone is looking for a specific sound or at least some direction, is that so wrong? Isn't it smart to ask first before splurge a bit of money on some pedals, figuring out you don't even like making noise with pedals, trying to sell those pedals before realizing those pedals won't hold any resell value whatsoever?

Have you never been to a noise show, been amazed at someones sound and asked yourself "how does he/she does it?" ? (If your answer is no, then you are getting jaded. If both answers are no, maybe its time to seek a new hobby).