WHITE CENTIPEDE NOISE PODCAST

Started by WCN, October 18, 2021, 11:45:20 PM

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FreakAnimalFinland

Good episode. It would be good to count how many "what was the question?" -moments there were?
Soddy's take on no-bass noise quite interesting. It appears that the crunch and fatness of sound appeals to most more. It is rare occasion to hear thin treble noise anymore. In harsh noise, or in power electronics. I mean on level on Death Squad "theological genocide" etc.

I do love the heavy and crunchy noise, but the weirdness of treble only noise (and power electronics) is almost unspoken thing in genre now?  Everybody likes it fat and heavy, and Soddys notion of total piercing nastiness is quite unusual approach these days and it is funny to listen how his own works were "mastered" heavier by the labels, making it theoretically better, but unlike artist intended.

At some point they say Mikko kicked Soddy at gig. Well... You may have heard some stories, perhaps some unacceptable horrible stories, but in this case I recall only open hand slap reached the target? May have kicked? Who knows..  Who would kick such a gentleman as Soddy? There is some video evidence of this at youtube. Tokyo 2005 live. From that, you can see man was begging for it. After gig we went to bar/restaurant of some sort and he told what happened with BDN. So long ago, story gets blurred. That video can't really show what show was. 20000V venue where a lot of noise shows used to be, was LOUD AS FUCK. If one wanted to damage ears, multiple noise shows there and I'd think will do some permanent damage.
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Bloated Slutbag

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on February 14, 2023, 08:01:41 AM
At some point they say Mikko kicked Soddy at gig.

I believe he said Mikawa, not Mikko, as they were talking about Incaps shows. Perhaps I can share that the encounter with Mikko (of which no recollection can be retained!) is briefly mentioned in the bonus episode. I'm thinking I might contact the marketing arm of the local tourism authority. They can make up some posters. Come to Japan! Slap Soddy in the face!

You laugh but I've seen it on the menu of at least one maid cafe. You race the server to skull a pint of beer- the server gets a thimble sized cup. If you win you get to snap a little momento; if you lose, SLAP! I recall one particular perv kept going up for the righteous slaps, clearly in no hurry to drain the glass.

And who wouldn't pay to see Mikko in a maid outfit?

Someone weaker than you should beat you and brag
And take you for a drag

FreakAnimalFinland

Ah, well, says so fast caught as if it was that, well.. I recall Robochanman was also hands around your throat at that gig, haha.. 
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Bloated Slutbag

My apologies, the kicking and choking is strictly the privilege of the locals. Come for the slaps, stay for the strangulation. Man these ads just write themselves.
Someone weaker than you should beat you and brag
And take you for a drag

Bloated Slutbag

#439
I'd meant to post something more coherent (or at least, more properly convoluted!) on some of what Mr CYESS AFXZS had to say, before getting side-tracked by the subsequent subcoherent ramblings of a certain sorry sod (technically recorded over a month ago).

For me, the one moment that starts the conversation is this idea that noise needs to be destroyed before it can move forward (or be reborn shall we say), through perhaps something like un-noise. This immediately reminded me of a comment Hiroshige made in an old Bananafish interview, cautioning that this is a paraphrase of a translation by David Hopkins from an interview taking place over 25 years ago: that an almighty mass of disorganized sound is prerequisite to going beyond music and noise [italics theirs- translators? publishers?]. That comment has been bugging the hell out of me ever since. How does producing an almighty mass of disorganized sound go "beyond" noise? And relates back to an old joke I used to trot out on the subject, in reviews and discussion; that no matter what you may try to do with noise, the results are always the same: more noise. Which might perhaps take a would-be destroyer in death spirals around jliat territory, where noise in its purest conception is the limit [empahasis mine].

I was then reminded of Hiroshige's solo work, which is certainly much more structured, presented in a complete package with lyric book containing what I'd call almost classic verse  (not myself being anywhere near versed enough in Japanese poetry to offer any but the vaguest suggestions along these lines, but shall we say approaching something like spiritual-cum-existential Morita Doji esque lines, I digress). And clearly there was an impact there, at least among the Japanese contingent, when you'd have Monde Bruits covering one of the better cuts on the first of these albums. (There were only about three albums before he began to edge more into, albeit noise-y, rock 'n roll territory. My fave track still gets plenty play here, though this youtube clip grossly curtails all the nuance.)

I trot out Hiroshige and Hijokaidan here as symbols of the some of the earliest attempts at bringing noise to its most clinically devastating (do check out the above indicated tracks at appropriate levels, and call your audiologist in the morning). Could the Japanese contingent have been having the same conversation we are now, back in the late 70s?

Now this idea of necessary destruction in the service of moving things forward is I think nicely supported in the contention that a would be destroyer needs to know the history. That is, needs to know the contours of what it is they are actively seeking to destroy. One might otherwise be missing the mark by quite the margin without even realizing it. We all watch movies. We know what happens when they think they got the bad guy but the actual dying breath is not shown. Cue the piercing violins.

One thing that I think needs to be emphasized, and here I will refer back to an old Ligotti quote from an interview bearing the same title: it's all about personal pathology. It may be harder than we think to "bring the whole thing forward" through individual re-framings, creations, destructions, but possibly that is all we will ever have. Reframings creations destructions on a strictly personal level. (Let this not be interpreted necessarily as resistance to the idea of at least trying. All for that, here! But.) I was in conversation very recently with a person who I feel is absolutely pushing things "forward", and who is absolutely challenging ideas of what might constitute listenable (never mind good) sound and music. And through this came a resistance to the idea of potentially assigning a sense of perceptual "movement" to one element (or cluster of elements) in a very atomised world of individual persons working through their personal pathologies and passions. Some may wish to ride the wall, others may choose to be NO PART OF IT. What can perhaps be seen as a serious and debilitating issue can as easily be perceived of as a strength (leaving out the tinnitus!), where any sense of a frame or frame within which to work is always fraying and cracking as it comes into contact, for however long, with other supposed frames, such as how Soddy briefly etched in his WCN episode, on the semi-wave-like convergence/dis-convergence of more classically minded harshnoise purveyors with the more gleefully anti elements in playful pursuit of private personal pathologies and passions.

Perhaps the only thing to be wary of is falling into a syntactic trap, wherein perceptions of music-sound-art are waylaid by overtly didactic attempts to frame it in words (which is all we'll ever have. sorry!). Trying (and failing) to locate a similar discussion on this forum from some years back, I did find vaguely tangential comments stuck in the middle of a subreadable borbeto commentary

Quotethat truly great noise is beyond words, and would only be diminished by words of any coherent form in the same way the infinite is diminished by any attempt to re-present in terms comprehensible to the syntax of subject-verb agreement

So going back to Hijokaidan and Hiroshige, perhaps the only way to go beyond music and noise is to stop talking about it. To stop pretending that we are making any sense whatsoever. And that, I'm afraid, is an IT OF which I'd like to be NO PART.

Glad I could convolute that up.
Someone weaker than you should beat you and brag
And take you for a drag

Krigsverk

About destroying noise... I think The Rita has come close to that, can't name the release/s from the top of my head, but there are speech based noise that he just distorts so hard that it almost becomes silence. All that is left is small crumbs and crackles, to my ears that is going beyond noise, destroying it. It is of course just one artist, so no real movement in noise maybe.

FreakAnimalFinland

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on February 16, 2023, 06:03:46 AM
Now this idea of necessary destruction in the service of moving things forward is I think nicely supported in the contention that a would be destroyer needs to know the history.

For me, re-inventing what noise and doing things differently seems to be tightly connected to not only the sound itself and making of noise, but where, how, to whom it is directed to. If to anyone. Usually it is, at least unconsciously. For me, the criticism found in that episode seemed to mostly apply to lets say scenario such as:
Guy with harsh noise t-shirt, recording harsh noise with known harsh noise making equipment, for harsh noise label, who caters already existing harsh noise audience, and distribute to them via existing harsh noise network. Including harsh noise gigs and fests
You can look that thing also in positive light. Harsh noise sound for harsh noise people! But you can also understand why it can become limiting for noise, and some call for doing it somehow differently.

That was different situation from the former years, when it could have been vastly different routine of making, publishing, distributing and even experiencing. Very different from some weirdo who went to record store and picked up album based on name or cover, with no idea what to really expect. People who went to punk or jazz show, and happened to catch other band doing noise set without any idea what that was, but getting excited.

I am all for the network. The obsessed jerks who know what they like and how to get it. No problem. That said, I also advocate taking it further. It may spawn the seed for new noise makers OR lead to different new approaches for the old artists who have now also other kind of audience than the "same".  I don't think there is really need of destruction really, as these things can perfectly fine co-exists, and certainly WILL exist, regardless of someone intentions. Just to acknowledge boundaries that has emerged, and little effort to break free from them. That can be enough for me, personally.
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Bloated Slutbag

#442
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on February 17, 2023, 06:32:28 PM
You can look that thing also in positive light. Harsh noise sound for harsh noise people! But you can also understand why it can become limiting for noise, and some call for doing it somehow differently.

That reminds me of a time Gomi (very politely) declined to play a noise show because, he said, he was not interested in playing for a noise crowd, not interested in doing noise for noise people, though I'm probably badly paraphrasing words received a good couple decades past, delivered in a language some distance from the first. (The words came with a nice stack of spanking hot AMP tapes, perhaps by way of apology, so a net plus from my perspective!) A year or so later I noticed Jerk-sama was sharing the bill with a bunch of hardcore bands, so not exactly outside the comfort zone but at least free of perceptibly noise-native confines. I think anyone who's ever played outside their immediate circle of perceivedly like-minded perv-veyors can get that, even if the main thing to be got is little more than a sense of freedom from feeling (self(?)) pressured to "perform" to a certain quality standard (or at least to a certain standard), and perhaps from there a more ready willingness to take more risks. Now, given the path Gomi's been on lately, I don't know that I'd mind an indulgence in more risk averse ventures, but that's just me (okay, not just me, of that much I think I can safely say). Much more recently I was approached by one of the hotter new harshers and asked to cough up materials for a sort of multi-partied collab thing conceived, if I've got this right, as an effort to get outside the comfort zone, or perhaps to escape a perceived danger of repeating themselves, essentially by pushing outward.

As far as the latter fear, I can't see any problem with tackling that by stubbornly toiling away in the same general direction, convinced that at some point glimmers of a way forward will emerge. I got that to an extent in some The Rita's comments on the podcast, where he seems to acknowledge potential limitations on the current path but that said path was by no means felt to have been exhausted of its potential. Perhaps to say, pushing inward rather than outward.

But which, then, is the path of least resistance?
Someone weaker than you should beat you and brag
And take you for a drag

RURAL RESISTANCE

The Slacking episode is excellent. I haven't heard the records before but I am definitely going to check them out after this interview. Interesting stuff in the extra material too.

tisbor

QuoteGood episode. It would be good to count how many "what was the question?" -moments there were?

drinking game!

WCN

Out now - Jim Lerario of SLACKING on WCN Podcast:

https://youtu.be/sFSxgIn8w2I
https://youtu.be/sFSxgIn8w2I
https://youtu.be/sFSxgIn8w2I

In the Patreon exclusive EXT., we carry on the conversation for another 40 minutes in a more spontaneous and way, opening up about a wide range of topics:

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FreakAnimalFinland

At one point there is talk about "psychedelic noise" and I think that discussion quickly goes into lack of definition, lack of terminology. I don't have enough experiences with Slacking material, and perhaps eventually will get more. So I don't really know how psychedelic his works in particular would feel.

Question seems interesting in noise, as what is really "psychedelic" in noise? I think the word gets usually thrown into, when there are elements we know of psychedelic music. Say, echo, delay, moog swirls, long almost hallusogenic properties in track durations where you can sink into.  As opposed to fast, short, brutal, in-your-face harshness.

However, it feels little odd term in noise, where most of stuff may have quality of expansion of consciousness, vibrate the reality, trigger non-ordinary mental states. Being unlike pop track, create realm of something else that has ability to transform known reality into.. some sort of good or bad trip?

In this case, it feels as if Slacking ain't at all the kind of "in tradition of psychedelic music". Like you can file CCCC into lineage of that. Early stages especially. It is still moog synth, bass, swirling electronics, all drenched into otherwordly echo that creates this illusion of something that is not really there. Small room or tiny speaker and result is still massive distant echoing realm as if it was some other dimension.

In case of noise, you could still ask would a lot of noise be "psychedelic". Not in terms of having quality that remind psychedelic music of early 70's, but taking it vastly further and not really caring what old psychedelic music was about. Also including the possibility of sheer horrors of bad trip. Unexplainable, horrid noise, hah...

I see there isn't really even topic for psychedelic noise on SI forum! Could be. As I have really no idea how most people see that word. Do they associate with psychedelic subculture of the 1960/70s, with its aesthetics and sonic qualities or perhaps really to the core of psychedelic experience, in mind manifesting something, sound evoking or documenting the unused potentials of the human mind. That could be also something unlike recycling late 60's visuals and nostagia?

Depending if there is discussion about this, it could be splitted into topic of its own.

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WCN

OUT NOW ON WCN TV! Recent Release Reviews

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chryptusrecords

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on February 16, 2023, 06:03:46 AM
Now this idea of necessary destruction in the service of moving things forward is I think nicely supported in the contention that a would be destroyer needs to know the history. That is, needs to know the contours of what it is they are actively seeking to destroy. One might otherwise be missing the mark by quite the margin without even realizing it.

Made me think of this part of Yoshihide Otomo interview on red bull music academy: https://youtu.be/rdpAFlyqmm4?t=4101

"Talking about noise music [...] I assume wrongly conveyed information was part of the reason. All of my generation who play noise are influenced by rock music. When we listen to rock we had few chances to see real American or British bands playing. We all listened to them through records. Sitting in front of speakers and listened to them. We all thought rock was extremely loud. [...] Rock is radical and loud and the players move violently like a storm on stage. Those images alone were amplified in our brain. We saw on TV, Jimi Hendrix smashing his guitar, The Who's breaking their guitars, we believed it was so cool! This part of our memory was swelled. Then we got an amplifier for our guitars and went to a club. A club in Japan is so small compared to in US or Europe. Even though they used Fender Twin Reverb or Roland Jazz Chorus 120. So when they played turning its volume to the max, the sound was so loud that feedback occurred. That maybe because I think we extremely misunderstood rock or free jazz. Then we imagined rock and jazz must be very very loud. [...] We composed music without right information, and in addition there were extreme misunderstandings. I imagine Japanese noise music was probably born by that biased information."

WCN

Harsh Noise label and EU based distro of American Imports
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