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Author Topic: Lack of post production  (Read 2658 times)
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-NRRRRK-
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2021, 04:56:15 PM »

Yes, I see the decision to release on vinyl as an aesthetic decision as well. Release on cassette as well, as much as any other medium.

My basic premise is that 99% of all recordings today are done digitally, so release on cd or download is pretty much only a 1:1 duplicate of the original file with next to no restrictions (there may be a change of bit-depth or similar, but only very limited influence on frequency range, dynamics, phase...). So whatever the artist can create can be released.

However, vinyl may be a little more demanding on how the material in question has to be prepared, as the process of vinyl duplication is more complex (including a certain human factor as the cutter etc.) and there are more technical-restrictions as well. So in the case of vinyl, there is more of a direct influence of the medium back to the creation of the original material (which may be executed in post-production).
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JLIAT
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« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2021, 05:54:38 PM »

Yes - well aware of this - I submitted a Noise piece for a Lathe Cut from Dr Dub - which burnt out their cutter. head....!
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MyrtleLake
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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2021, 08:40:46 PM »

...the process of vinyl duplication is more complex (including a certain human factor as the cutter etc.

Can this be expanded upon? I mean, no one is actually manually "cutting" the vinyl master. If, for example, the mastering job does not accommodate the technical requirements of the machine used for the master, either dynamic sound is lost or (as stated) the machine self-destructs. (I guess? I have no knowledge on vinyl production nor mastering beyond basic, off-hand hearsay).

But.. to return to my original purpose on this posting: what exact "human factor" is involved in the person who produces the original that is then duplicated for a "pressing?"
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JLIAT
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2021, 11:42:15 AM »

I hope someone who knows the details – don't! but cutting the master for vinyl pressing is I think still a manual process. For one - the length of the music affects the size of the grooves. High frequency can cause cutting and playback problems – but the real problem is Bass – especially stereo – where if  loud the groove can disappear! I've seen an animation of this and why – stereo uses two cutters at right angles, many drum and bass therefore uses mono bass & low frequency. Also the depth of the groove affects the spacing – so loud disks are shorter in length. Add to that special effects – locked grooves, or the Monty python LP with two different tracks on one side – often you will see a signature on the Vinyl of the technician. Which means for vinyl the production of the recording has to take the physical nature of the cutting into account for a good master. There are lots of tips on this on the web.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_reHCXXJNQ4

===> more detail   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYQi5uG94Ec   esp the last part
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 11:57:45 AM by JLIAT » Logged
MyrtleLake
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2021, 05:13:32 PM »

Thank you for the explanation. That makes sense. Cutting the vinyl master is a balancing act, then, between various factors. For example, if one aspect of frequency / length of side / etc. were to be cut theoretically perfect, its opposing factor would be ruined or degraded. So there are multiple considerations to evaluate in relation to each other. Hence, the master is not literally "cut by hand," but the aspects by which it is made is weighed by human discernment.
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JLIAT
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2021, 06:03:44 PM »

Thank you for the explanation. That makes sense. Cutting the vinyl master is a balancing act, then, between various factors. For example, if one aspect of frequency / length of side / etc. were to be cut theoretically perfect, its opposing factor would be ruined or degraded. So there are multiple considerations to evaluate in relation to each other. Hence, the master is not literally "cut by hand," but the aspects by which it is made is weighed by human discernment.

I think this was stated at the end of one of the videos that a pressing plant will 'play safe' given a master - so the result may not be as it is intended - hence having a professional do this in consultation with the artist. This not applicable to cassette or Digital recording. Also accounts for certain studios being preferred - i think Bennett talked about this.
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-NRRRRK-
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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2021, 11:53:46 AM »

Hence, the master is not literally "cut by hand," but the aspects by which it is made is weighed by human discernment.

Yes, the lacquer is not "cut by hand" in a sense that somebody is using a knife or chisel to manually cut it, but they operate a machine which does the cutting.

However the machine has parameters in which it works which can be influenced by the operator.
And there may even be EQs or compressors at work to alter the source signal which is fed into the cutting machine.
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JLIAT
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« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2021, 01:32:38 PM »

Hence, the master is not literally "cut by hand," but the aspects by which it is made is weighed by human discernment.

Yes, the lacquer is not "cut by hand" in a sense that somebody is using a knife or chisel to manually cut it, but they operate a machine which does the cutting.

However the machine has parameters in which it works which can be influenced by the operator.
And there may even be EQs or compressors at work to alter the source signal which is fed into the cutting machine.


Yes - its obvious when you see a signature of the engineer literally cut into the master with a pin or something on the inner section of vinyls. I also mentioned locked grooves -

I also mentioned this  "A vinyl record may be double-grooved, with the second groove containing the hidden tracks. Examples of double-grooving include Monty Python's 'three-sided' Matching Tie and Handkerchief, "

Hard to explain - but on one side are two spiral tracks - depending on where you place the stylus you get either one - a friend had this and its quite a shock when you think you're playing this and hear the 'alternative' track for the first time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_track



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