Special Interest

GEAR / TECHNOLOGY => gear/tech/etc => Topic started by: D. Davis on November 09, 2014, 01:55:12 AM



Title: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: D. Davis on November 09, 2014, 01:55:12 AM
What is everybody using and doing?


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Cementimental on November 09, 2014, 10:50:11 PM
everybody is using tremelo and/or echo :D


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Cementimental on November 10, 2014, 11:44:32 AM
I'm using two Danelectro Black Liquorices and a Death Metal. (tho in practice it's more of a 'mouth-shape/humming to bass squarewave converter' than a vocal effect per se)


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: F_c_O on November 10, 2014, 03:21:51 PM
I use reverse reverb from my mixer. No idea how it differs from the other ones but it sounds nice to me. I am really annoyed by vocals pushed through tremolo/flanger/phaser whatever so I avoid them like plague itself.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: tiny_tove on November 10, 2014, 08:12:30 PM
generally reverb+delay and that's it.
Most of the time I prefer to keep voice quite natural, then bury it in the mix.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on November 10, 2014, 08:42:47 PM
everybody is using tremelo and/or echo :D

Tremolo? Who's using tremolo? It seems almost unheard in any music/noise? I guess some could confuse fast phaser, flanger or chorus to tremolo, but difference should be quite obvious?

I thin best for vocal manipulations would be something that is less linear more actively manipulated effects. I've been certainly "guilty" of very mathematical effects (thanks to use of digital multieffects what barely allow changes done live), but the more time passes, more distance towards that...


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: D. Davis on November 10, 2014, 11:08:56 PM
In live settings I've been running Gristleizer/Pro Co Rat/MXR Blue box with an assorted bit of reverb pedals I've been experimenting with. Basically just seeing what people are running. Debating on Roland's VT-3. Anybody purchased one yet?


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Cementimental on November 10, 2014, 11:09:29 PM
I guess some could confuse fast phaser, flanger or chorus to tremolo, but difference should be quite obvious?
yeah a bunch of tremelo and those other cliche fx too. I should have been more sarcastic and just gone for the all-encompassing 'dalek voice' :)

Quote
Debating on Roland's VT-3. Anybody purchased one yet?
I got one, it's fun but I've yet to find a good use for it in an actual setup. Will be great for something I'm sure but then I like horrible vocoder/autotune sounds which probably don't fit a lot of people's sound here. :)


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Cementimental on November 10, 2014, 11:24:22 PM
Cool! You'd probably find it useful then. It is a nice piece of gear tho kind of limited, they realllly should have given it midi in! Maybe someone will come up with a hack.

One nice thing about it is that there's no dropout/click at all when switching between different FX settings.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: tiny_tove on November 11, 2014, 09:34:00 AM

fast phaser, flanger

Grey wolves/Con-dom abuse of this.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Cementimental on November 11, 2014, 01:50:56 PM
they realllly should have given it midi in! Maybe someone will come up with a hack.

Speak of the devil: they just updated the firmware! :D

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2014/07/roland-aira-series-1-1-everything-gets-smarter-usb-backup-restore/

Quote
The VT-3 vocal processor just got useful – smoothed out, and with MIDI control. I’m not going to mince words: I hated the VT-3 when I first tried it. The presets were weird, and the sound quality was inconsistent because of erratic levels. It appears 1.1 fixes the sound quality issue, by gating noise and managing volume levels as you work with characters. And most importantly, it turns into something more of you might actually want to use, with external MIDI keyboard control of pitch (including on the vocoder). It happens to be fun to route the TR-8 into the VT-3, so this could be a lot of fun.

will give it a try today.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: ANDROPHILIA on November 11, 2014, 07:59:08 PM
nobody use buzz?


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Cementimental on November 12, 2014, 01:41:01 AM
buzz?


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: online prowler on November 12, 2014, 07:13:04 AM
Two mics. One clean, one w effects.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: ANDROPHILIA on November 12, 2014, 10:51:30 PM
buzz?

ehm

sorry
FUZZ i meant



Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Jordan on November 13, 2014, 12:22:39 AM
I actually really like modulation effects on vocals in PE. It may be cliche, but I like it that way. Sometimes it's a bit much - for example, that song on Divine Legions Beyond Psyche by Strom.ec, I'm not sure what it's called, and I don't currently have a CD player to find out. I like that style of vocals a lot better than hardcore/metal style vocals, which, with some exceptions, I find clashes with the general PE sound.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: GEWALTMONOPOL on November 13, 2014, 01:44:38 AM
The times I've tried fuzz it's sounded awful. Like donald duck. Not recommended. Unless you want comedy of course.

Ages since I heard Legions Beyond Psyche but the vocals could be going through an MS10. I know that can sound really good. Never did it myself but Stab does it a lot.

Otherwise there's the classic phaser. Cliche perhaps but so what if it sounds good? Take your pick among all the greats who've used that one.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: ANDROPHILIA on November 13, 2014, 02:09:51 AM
The times I've tried fuzz it's sounded awful. Like donald duck.

LOL


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on November 13, 2014, 08:56:37 AM
I think most of fuzz or heavy distortion sounds quite lame. Especially with high pitch screaming. I remember when I first time heard deathpile split LP with Discordance, and first impression of flanger + distortion scream didn't make me think of robots, but little sheep! haha... Perhaps also because it was so up front. I don't care much of the *really* cheesy robot effect. but tasteful use of all those normal electronic effects as chorus, phaser etc work for me well. It's matter of finding settings that contribute overall feel of song and blend vocals into atmosphere.

I think main thing is not that vocals are clean narration on top of totally "unrelated" electronic sound, but ability to make vocals be also interesting sound element, besides the delivery of words. Certainly not always happening...

I've found that best way to distort vocals would be simply good type of overdrive. And often better results than any pedals, are things like analogue tape recorder input gain. You get raw and ripping overdrive, but not overall distortion what would make it flat. 4-track recorders, tape decks with microphone inputs, various kind of other recorders. And like GEWALTMONOPOL mentions, very good vocal distortion (and overall tone on frequencies) can be achieved with taking vocals through synth. MS-10, MS-20.. endless possibilities on latter one. Also good to filter many kinds of noise.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: tiny_tove on November 13, 2014, 12:24:08 PM
agree

Fuzz usually turn vocals... aehm Fuzzy
Disrtortions on vocals works mostly if you really want inhuman voice that, for my standards, I prefer in other kind of atmospheres... There are exceptions of course.
Yeah, vocals through MS20 (or better anything through Ms20) always win.

I think it's important to develop your own vocal style and understand the limits of your voice (possibly without hospitalization)...
The problem I have with recording vocals is that is the only thing I cannot do in-house and having long breaks between recording sessions, which means that every time I return to studio it is like going to the gym and everything becomes weaker and painful. and this is why whenever I try to record something for samplers, or single tracks vocals sounds weak...


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Cementimental on November 13, 2014, 12:52:26 PM
Best vocal effect is actually having a powerful vocal performance as opposed to just muttering thru some guitar pedals :)

Anyone use actual vocal fx units in their stuff? there's some interesting stuff out there these days. I got an old TC Helicon Voice One rackmount thing from a car boot sale a few years back, it can do subtle autotune, really high quality pitch shifting etc but also stuff like adding raspiness, subtle random timestretching (intended to make harmonies more realistically imperfect) which get pretty interesting/unpleasant when you crank the settings up to 'wrong' amounts.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: GEWALTMONOPOL on November 13, 2014, 01:19:36 PM
I think it's important to develop your own vocal style and understand the limits of your voice (possibly without hospitalization)...
The problem I have with recording vocals is that is the only thing I cannot do in-house and having long breaks between recording sessions, which means that every time I return to studio it is like going to the gym and everything becomes weaker and painful. and this is why whenever I try to record something for samplers, or single tracks vocals sounds weak...

Very true. For those of us who have neighbours to consider it's hard to maintain the vocals. I've suffered headaches after studio sessions due to that. Last year I was rehearsing for a month in a house in the middle of nowhere where I could go full pelt. The difference in power and control at the end of that was significant.

I got an old TC Helicon Voice One rackmount thing from a car boot sale a few years back, it can do subtle autotune, really high quality pitch shifting etc but also stuff like adding raspiness, subtle random timestretching (intended to make harmonies more realistically imperfect) which get pretty interesting/unpleasant when you crank the settings up to 'wrong' amounts.

Could you share a photo of that one Tim? It sounds interesting but the "TC" part also sounds like it could be very expensive.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Cementimental on November 13, 2014, 03:31:05 PM
(http://c1.zzounds.com/media/quality,85/vone_front_big-68c5580c00ae666b6d355f226a23bbee.jpg)

Yeah, it cost about £1000 when it was released in the 90's but I got mine at a car boot sale for £30 :)

A lot of this sort of gear can be relatively cheap second hand these days since the whole autotune thing has become much more software-centric and affordable.

TC now do a bunch of vocal fx units in desktop/pedal form for live use, around £200-300ish, I think this star trek looking thing is functionally similar to my rackmount but more controllable and with delays + other stuff too:

Quote
http://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/styles/news_large/s3/imagelibrary/L/LS_TC_Helicon_VoiceLive_Touch_01.jpg?HRjP52_IMIwU_O9AAqwqfSfLEFWmYR1A=&itok=R-qrnv2H


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: tiny_tove on November 13, 2014, 05:52:34 PM
I have the TC repeater, got it as a bargain still new. I quite like it but have not used too much yet...


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Leewar on November 15, 2014, 05:49:22 PM
A 10 watt practice amp, slashed speakers and generally fucked, or a cheap karaoke machine, its a good way to add background sounds to vocals


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: ironfistofthesun on November 16, 2014, 12:25:08 PM
I'm a heavy vocal manipulator...in fact doubt if there is any ifots track I have done dry. my aim has alway been to convert the voice and the words into further possibilitys. I will probably route and re route again and again until I have something unusual. strangely I have lately been repulsed by delay fx's to the point of removing  records off the stereo when I hear it ... 


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: redvenicerecords on November 19, 2014, 01:56:46 PM
Laptop VST's and IPAD apps.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: C601 on November 19, 2014, 09:01:28 PM
Oral creampie with contact mic


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: ligature impression on December 01, 2014, 03:43:21 AM
... It's matter of finding settings that contribute overall feel of song and blend vocals into atmosphere.

I think main thing is not that vocals are clean narration on top of totally "unrelated" electronic sound, but ability to make vocals be also interesting sound element, besides the delivery of words. ...

THIS. I think this is spot on. I've heard a lot of clean vocals on noise/PE records, and sometimes it sounds great, and sometimes it's boring as hell. For me, it's crucial to have vocals be a part of the atmosphere, like another instrument. I try to match vocal effects with the theme of the lyrics and the tone of the synth. Still human, but affected. I listen to Atrax Morgue, Taeter, Minotaur and Grunt tracks, and the vocals add to the mood and clarify the intent from song to song. When you're working with minimal composition, vocal effects add to the character. 


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: tinnitustimulus on December 03, 2014, 09:29:44 PM
I've been messing around with therapeutic binaural beat recordings and over blowing them on my rickety 4track and then doing vocals. It does really nice panning effect buthavn't really made anything releasable with yet, as I'm not vocal oriented.

As for vocal practice, I've been using the car. Each time I'm in the car alone for long time I end up screaming out of boredom, trying different things. At the end of every trip I have fry in my voice, so I've been trying to limit that.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Cementimental on December 04, 2014, 01:25:48 AM
Quote
As for vocal practice, I've been using the car.
I remember reading some William Bennett interview where he suggests recording vocals in the car (and thus I learned that Juntaro didn't have a car)


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: beef__dada on April 22, 2015, 04:35:09 AM
ring modulation, modulation delay, stereo delays and of the such do me pretty good in messin up 'standard' audio.
WhwjapwoejraehraihwehJQHWHJQHJLEIOWROIHweoifhaerSEQWeW


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: birthdeath on April 23, 2015, 10:08:27 PM
Can you play the Korg MS-20 mini while running your voice through it?


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Cementimental on April 24, 2015, 12:45:01 AM
I probably could


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: birthdeath on April 24, 2015, 01:23:47 AM
I probably could

So you mean when you run your voice through you could only "play" the synth with your voice and the knobs but not the keys?

kind of what I was figuring..


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: HONOR_IS_KING! on May 27, 2015, 06:13:03 AM
Fostex MR8


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Cementimental on May 28, 2015, 01:03:37 PM
I probably could

So you mean when you run your voice through you could only "play" the synth with your voice and the knobs but not the keys?

kind of what I was figuring..

No I mean I think it'd be possible to make a patch to play the Korg MS-20 mini while running one's voice through it


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: isomer on June 08, 2015, 02:56:08 PM
Quote
As for vocal practice, I've been using the car.
I remember reading some William Bennett interview where he suggests recording vocals in the car (and thus I learned that Juntaro didn't have a car)

I've done this before, recorded while I was driving on an open road. Probably not the safest option, but the whoosh and ambient noise was a nice effect for the vocals!


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: sick on August 29, 2015, 08:41:16 PM
Phaser/Flanger is cool with vocals that aren't scream and/or distorted. Like Haus Arafna,Genocide Organ,Anenzephalia use this effect and it sounds cool.

I don't have a synth but I watched a video of some dude doing vox through a MS-20 and it just sounded like a synth playing to the rhythm of his voice?

i like using panning delay,glitch-stutter delay,lots of the SP-303 effects, and tape manipulations on vocals


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: greylake on August 30, 2015, 05:55:29 AM
I'll second ring modulators and flangers. Ring modulated or amplitude modulated vocals always sound good. Flanged vocals sound good too, I always like the metallic effect that comb filtering gives, especially when the sweep is at its lowest setting.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: greylake on August 30, 2015, 06:43:37 PM
A little compression before an FX send helps too


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Dr Alex on January 18, 2016, 11:38:23 AM
Anyone tried this processor:

(https://schneidermusik.de/shop1/images/images_big/p_moe_ve_50.jpg)

MOOER Vocal Multi Effects Processor


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Bleak Existence on January 18, 2016, 04:19:36 PM
no all i know is that mooer is cheap chin fx


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Force Neurotic on May 19, 2016, 07:19:54 PM
Can anyone recommend a good analog delay or echo for vocals that can get wonky, squiggly modulations via knob-twiddling? I recently got rid of a half-decent digital delay that did some interesting stutter and warped "Wad"-style effects. Looking for the same possibilities, but with a thicker, warmer sound.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Cementimental on May 20, 2016, 05:15:51 PM
NUX Time Core is cheap and does pretty odd things when you turn the speed knob, plus it has some good sounds inc. backwards delay and very basic loop setting. Wish it had a dry kill tho (wish all delays did), might try to modify.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: calaverasgrande on June 06, 2016, 10:29:37 PM
I came up with a fun little chain a while back.
EHX Iron Lung vocoder
Big Briar Low Pass
Boss Super Shifter
I run the mic into the iron lung, out to low pass, then to the shifter, then back through the Iron Lung as the carrier of itself.
If the low pass filter wasn't in there this would not work. It would feedback like crazy and probably sound pretty neat before your tweeters exploded. But with just the right settings on the filter it is almost intelligible speech.
I sometimes dial back the crazy on the Iron Lung and the Pitch Shifter so that it is more like human speech. Or take the filter and vocoder out entirely but leave the pitch shift on.

I've done similar set ups with the EHX ring modulator (Full size 'Frequency analyzer'), or the Moog one replacing the Iron Lung.

Basically my goal is a squawking midrange which approximates a vocal but conveys no information. Except when I want actual words to be understood, then I fall back on pitch shifty stuff.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: A.R.GH on November 28, 2016, 07:11:00 PM
I don't know if it best to start a new topic for this question or should I just ask it here, ok but here it goes.
Does anyone does some warm up exercises or anything special? do you just scream your lungs out until your throat sores or does anyone  tries to do it the "correct" way?


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: 4CRSAC on November 29, 2016, 04:29:18 AM
Anyone ever try doubling a vocal track Frank Zappa-style, to strengthen it?
I've done that before, but to get the Today-is-the-Day vocal warble sound. That's all I got.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: Force Neurotic on November 30, 2016, 06:16:13 PM
I don't know if it best to start a new topic for this question or should I just ask it here, ok but here it goes.
Does anyone does some warm up exercises or anything special? do you just scream your lungs out until your throat sores or does anyone  tries to do it the "correct" way?

I'm sure there are some people that just scream and yell, but I do warm-ups and practice actual singing and vocalizations so I can do the rough stuff without hurting myself. If you're going to yell off and on for several hours recording vocals, I approach it in a way as not to get a migraine, lose your ability to speak for a few days, or burst blood vessels.

Don't drink alcohol while recording them, and consider cutting back/quitting if you smoke.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: tiny_tove on December 01, 2016, 09:54:16 AM

I'm sure there are some people that just scream and yell, but I do warm-ups and practice actual singing and vocalizations so I can do the rough stuff without hurting myself. If you're going to yell off and on for several hours recording vocals, I approach it in a way as not to get a migraine, lose your ability to speak for a few days, or burst blood vessels.

Don't drink alcohol while recording them, and consider cutting back/quitting if you smoke.
[/quote]

same here.
warm up before intense recording session.

another thing I do is never record more than 30 minutes at the time. which is approximately good for 6 tracks. If I have to do more I just do two sessions.

training is important for vocals. when I have to record "big projects" I always have a couple of pre-traning.


Title: Re: Vocal effects and manipulations…?
Post by: A.R.GH on December 01, 2016, 09:46:25 PM
Good posts.
I've found some exercises and techniques taught by this lady who trains guys in metal/hardcore bands, quite useful https://youtu.be/kkLMcU2D-Ig
false-chord screaming and all that.
only recently I started thinking and researching about the importance of this, since I'm actually recording and rehearsing material with much more vocals.

I'll add that nothing ever came out the way I'd intended when recording, prior to getting a graphic equalizer - adjust the frequency bands to the highs, mids, or lows you want to boost, and this will make your life a lot easier.
yes, absolutely, I'm learning what frequencies to cut and boost to make my voice sound closer to what I want