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Author Topic: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)  (Read 19332 times)
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FreakAnimalFinland
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« Reply #105 on: August 19, 2019, 12:33:00 PM »

But it can become difficult to experience anything much further when you find out that the one pointing you to the door doesn't really have that much to say if you remove the context of 'industrial music' from their statements. If you want to try and take what someone is saying further than the vehicle through which they're saying it then it requires you to scrutinize that vehicle and the artist's true motivations for using it.  People claiming artistic ambiguity are very often totally dependent on this never being done to their work and it works in their favour that their only real opponents are the ones who don't want to engage with it on any level but to try and have it shut down.

I don't know why would you want to have hang-ups about artist motivation, if it really boils down to presenting more questions than answers, where as said before, experiencer (be it audience or artists himself) is in main role? To me, it is obvious, that many of the core issues that builds any of the elements of modern society, would be ready to re-evaluation. It can be done in many forms of expression, yet topic of forum is what it is. That industrial music doesn't necessarily give you the answer straight away in form of statement, doesn't make it less. Perhaps even opposite. One may say that piece of art has failed when it doesn't, as you say, doesn't really point anywhere. Nevertheless, the same clues clearly lead people to different things. Rather than that some particular work of art would be completely hopeless, I often see certain kind of laziness. Focus is rarely trying to find more than there seemingly is, but focusing on seeing even less than there really is. That ain't the real loss for piece or art, though. There will be next years & eyes.

Certainly I agree with the last sentence. What I consider majority of reaction towards themes being. Themes that hold nearly religious status in society, and remain usually largely unchallenged or admitted to be what they really are. Someone will most often consider that been there, done that, why I should ponder over and over again issues X, Z and Y, when it's all laid out loud and clear long ago, in vast general agreement. Yet, I tend to disagree, and tend to think that this is exactly what sets apart the common folks and the others.

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« Reply #106 on: August 19, 2019, 05:18:42 PM »


sorry THAT By Anton Shekhovtsov? LOOOL
Ok no need to read further.
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« Reply #107 on: August 19, 2019, 11:03:49 PM »

Certainly I agree with the last sentence. What I consider majority of reaction towards themes being. Themes that hold nearly religious status in society, and remain usually largely unchallenged or admitted to be what they really are. Someone will most often consider that been there, done that, why I should ponder over and over again issues X, Z and Y, when it's all laid out loud and clear long ago, in vast general agreement. Yet, I tend to disagree, and tend to think that this is exactly what sets apart the common folks and the others.

agree as usual: 1% power electronics

that's it.

no excuses
no regrets
no explanation
no taboos

and these morons should not complain if confronted and just show guts if thy and not involve their bigger friends/goons as they often did in the id 2000s (Leipzig, Yverdon, Kassel, Frankfurr anyone?)

there cannot be dialogue with people who take things out of context and are often (not always) funded by social trusts.

on the other side, if you feel you might get hurt stop provoking and using controversial imagery, simple as that.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 11:05:52 PM by tiny_tove » Logged

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« Reply #108 on: August 19, 2019, 11:12:54 PM »

and these morons should not complain if confronted and just show guts if thy and not involve their bigger friends/goons as they often did in the id 2000s (Leipzig, Yverdon, Kassel, Frankfurr anyone?)


Not sure what you mean, can you elaborate?
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« Reply #109 on: August 19, 2019, 11:36:41 PM »

just a  few attacks/gig cancelled thanks to these gentlemen. No jokes, they were triggered by people spreading shit on line via hear-a-say on non-nazi bands.

People got hurt, gear/vans got smashed/stolen, girls intimidated, and antifas who got caught cried injustice in court/hospital.

example http://switzerland.indymedia.org/fr/2008/10/63612.shtml 40 vs 8 people (3 women). lionhearts.
I was involved in a couple of occasion and it was so stupid.
I could add these people making pressure and demanding to speak with us in different occasion "in their ground", something I always refused to do since they are no authority.

Funnily enough those who questioned me directly always went away either friendly (Holland was a blast) or even more confused to say the least (Italy).

These people cannot accept the fact that truth is non-binary an is post-ideological, that the "arts" (sorry for the term) are not necessarily of civil use, and that social criticism does not necessarily have to fit an agenda.

There is people who lost jobs because of these gits, I have seen so much pressure on some guys that they were only doing their things that some marriages got broken... and I am not exaggerating.

They can do whatever they want, they can live their partisan dream, I don't care, but they can't complain if some people get pissed off if they spread LIES.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 11:54:52 PM by tiny_tove » Logged

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« Reply #110 on: August 20, 2019, 12:06:11 AM »

Wow okay thanks for clearing that up. There's certainly cities with more leftist extremist violence than others (just as there are some more right-leaning ones), so if that's known it would make sense to involve heavy security (or even police if there's threats beforehand on forums or whatever) for anything neofolk-related or projects of other genres these extremist would react allergic to.
Normally I would always prefer reasonable discussion but honestly most of these "activists" probably don't even know what fascism means. I think they're at a point where they hate nationalism/conservatives so much that they violently go against anything once they catch a faint whiff of romanticism, paganism or historical themes of certain eras to have their own little political "revolutions" cause they're not gonna get anything done democratically. Attacking a Camerata show just further proves the stupidity of unorganized delusional tactics.
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Andrew McIntosh
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« Reply #111 on: August 20, 2019, 03:15:52 AM »

"Stab your backs when you trash our halls
Trash a bank if you've got real balls"
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« Reply #112 on: August 20, 2019, 10:09:23 PM »

Are The Quietus going to publish their article on Consumer Electronics or did something scare them off? There was so much fanfare from them a few months ago. Bit off more than they could chew perhaps? Not a wise career move? Too many establishment feathers ruffled?

I guess that's the last of it from TQ then. Fucking pussies!
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« Reply #113 on: August 21, 2019, 10:09:26 PM »

There's certainly cities with more leftist extremist violence than others (just as there are some more right-leaning ones)
In this case this comparison can't be done.  We are specifically talking about antifas disrupting events and attacking people (and crying when somebody backfired).
You do not debate people who wants you dead even if you are not what they claim to be.
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« Reply #114 on: August 21, 2019, 11:03:22 PM »

There's certainly cities with more leftist extremist violence than others (just as there are some more right-leaning ones)
In this case this comparison can't be done.  We are specifically talking about antifas disrupting events and attacking people (and crying when somebody backfired).
You do not debate people who wants you dead even if you are not what they claim to be.


I was making a point of whether these attacks are to be expected more in certain areas with higher extremist activity to evaluate the need to organize security etc.. Trying to promote a NSBM show in Hamburg for instance would be extremely dumb - you would have to expect antifa to shut you down. Just as much as you would expect getting shut down when hosting a queer-trans-noise show in a rural saxony village. I'm sure there's been cases of right-wing extremists attacking pro-LGBT music events, leftist protests with punk concerts and the like so I'm not sure how you don't see a comparison there.
If by "wants you dead" you mean someone being in the process of attacking you of course you'll defend yourself and hopefully fuck them up, you would be stupid not to. For debating though it doesn't really matter whether someone wants you dead or not, only whether they're capable of civil and informed discourse. I only mentioned that because you said in your earlier post that you were contacted to join some discussion and I still think public debates are the best way to expose ignorant and stupid positions.
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« Reply #115 on: August 22, 2019, 10:10:35 AM »

There's certainly cities with more leftist extremist violence than others (just as there are some more right-leaning ones)
In this case this comparison can't be done.  We are specifically talking about antifas disrupting events and attacking people (and crying when somebody backfired).
You do not debate people who wants you dead even if you are not what they claim to be.


I was making a point of whether these attacks are to be expected more in certain areas with higher extremist activity to evaluate the need to organize security etc.. Trying to promote a NSBM show in Hamburg for instance would be extremely dumb - you would have to expect antifa to shut you down. Just as much as you would expect getting shut down when hosting a queer-trans-noise show in a rural saxony village. I'm sure there's been cases of right-wing extremists attacking pro-LGBT music events, leftist protests with punk concerts and the like so I'm not sure how you don't see a comparison there.
If by "wants you dead" you mean someone being in the process of attacking you of course you'll defend yourself and hopefully fuck them up, you would be stupid not to. For debating though it doesn't really matter whether someone wants you dead or not, only whether they're capable of civil and informed discourse. I only mentioned that because you said in your earlier post that you were contacted to join some discussion and I still think public debates are the best way to expose ignorant and stupid positions.

In the 2000er the Focus on Neofolk and Related was more in the Way of Backstabbing and Attacking with all means. From Beating Up People (Challence of Honour and Friends), throwing Stones on Busses/Windows/Cars, Burning Cars and Blackmailing People or making Live Traits or Bomb Traits (Like in Bremen with Kirlian Camera or Blood Axis in Dresden/Heldrungen). They attack the People. Consumer, Maker and Organisators were attacked regulary. Not only Demonstrations against some Shows. It

Actualy i would disagree with the Statement about the Concerts in Hamburg or Turingia, its always a Problem of the Promotion itself. If you promote a NSBM Event in Nuclear War Now Forum and maybe RockHard, thats really dumb. If you make a Privat Concert for Guests, its a lot easier to handle it. Of course its not a 100% Safe, like with Allerseelen in Bremen. There are from Time to Time Skin Concerts in Hamburg and the Sourrounding, so nothing is impossible. Even not in the Woods of Thuringia...
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« Reply #116 on: August 22, 2019, 11:42:46 AM »

Actualy i would disagree with the Statement about the Concerts in Hamburg or Turingia, its always a Problem of the Promotion itself. If you promote a NSBM Event in Nuclear War Now Forum and maybe RockHard, thats really dumb. If you make a Privat Concert for Guests, its a lot easier to handle it. Of course its not a 100% Safe, like with Allerseelen in Bremen. There are from Time to Time Skin Concerts in Hamburg and the Sourrounding, so nothing is impossible. Even not in the Woods of Thuringia...

Didn't say it was impossible. By adjusting the matters in which the show has to be promoted (private instead of public) you are acknowledging having to adapting the way the show is handled according to your environment (antifa presence), having awareness so to speak, which is exactly my point.
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« Reply #117 on: August 22, 2019, 12:41:00 PM »

Antifa needs hunting down unto the last man.

The anonymous keyboard warriors at TQ attacking people for their own personal gain should be exposed for who and what they are.
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« Reply #118 on: August 22, 2019, 11:15:15 PM »

Actualy i would disagree with the Statement about the Concerts in Hamburg or Turingia, its always a Problem of the Promotion itself. If you promote a NSBM Event in Nuclear War Now Forum and maybe RockHard, thats really dumb. If you make a Privat Concert for Guests, its a lot easier to handle it. Of course its not a 100% Safe, like with Allerseelen in Bremen. There are from Time to Time Skin Concerts in Hamburg and the Sourrounding, so nothing is impossible. Even not in the Woods of Thuringia...

Didn't say it was impossible. By adjusting the matters in which the show has to be promoted (private instead of public) you are acknowledging having to adapting the way the show is handled according to your environment (antifa presence), having awareness so to speak, which is exactly my point.
i think your point is useless from begin with. if i am aware about the fact that i organise a right winged concert i use the promotion for that. if i am not aware about the fact that it could maybe under special circumstances a band thats not right winged but in the register of antifa, i can't make the promotion private cause i don't know it before.

ultha were banned from a antifa location cause they aren't antifa enough and us band inquisition where blamed several tours to be racistic neonazis and played in Markthalle Hamburg, so tell me the options i have....
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« Reply #119 on: August 22, 2019, 11:53:18 PM »

Actualy i would disagree with the Statement about the Concerts in Hamburg or Turingia, its always a Problem of the Promotion itself. If you promote a NSBM Event in Nuclear War Now Forum and maybe RockHard, thats really dumb. If you make a Privat Concert for Guests, its a lot easier to handle it. Of course its not a 100% Safe, like with Allerseelen in Bremen. There are from Time to Time Skin Concerts in Hamburg and the Sourrounding, so nothing is impossible. Even not in the Woods of Thuringia...

Didn't say it was impossible. By adjusting the matters in which the show has to be promoted (private instead of public) you are acknowledging having to adapting the way the show is handled according to your environment (antifa presence), having awareness so to speak, which is exactly my point.
i think your point is useless from begin with. if i am aware about the fact that i organise a right winged concert i use the promotion for that. if i am not aware about the fact that it could maybe under special circumstances a band thats not right winged but in the register of antifa, i can't make the promotion private cause i don't know it before.

ultha were banned from a antifa location cause they aren't antifa enough and us band inquisition where blamed several tours to be racistic neonazis and played in Markthalle Hamburg, so tell me the options i have....


You think it's useless to have a bit of awareness whether there's an antifa mob operating in your city that might attack your venue, organizers & artists if you book certain bands that are on their radar and to adjust security measures accordingly? Because that is the point I'm making. Better to be safe and cautious to begin with then to be sorry later. Of course that doesn't mean you can foresee every move they make but if you're on the fence don't risk it and keep the show private.
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