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Author Topic: Industrial / noise / experimental magazines that has existed?  (Read 57964 times)
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CMSFoundation
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« Reply #120 on: January 05, 2020, 11:10:31 PM »

I was given a small stack of old zines by a friend not too long ago, which happened to contain issues 18 and 21 of ND.
Holy shit, I'm still blown away by the content, and now I feel like I'm on a quest to read / acquire many more issues of ND. I assume eBay is my best bet but are there any other aftermarket places for zines like this?

Thanks in advance.

Welcome to the search for the most search engine-resistant zine name of all time. ("N D" returns about 3+ million selections until you learn how to whittle it down a bit)

There might be a few on eBay, but the best bet (and I can't believe I'm giving you this info because I'm still looking for a few of these issues myself) are some of the rare book sites, specifically alibris.com and abebooks.com. If you add "Daniel Plunkett" to the search, you can track down a generous handful of issues of N D, with far fewer returns than just typing in "ND". Sometimes, if you do a search based on a handful of artists in each issue, you might track down some others that are harder to find.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 06:27:34 PM by CMSFoundation » Logged
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« Reply #121 on: January 05, 2020, 11:16:39 PM »

...there's also a Discogs-related site called Bookogs that has just started dipping its toe into music zines. There are a *few* issues of N D there, maybe, or least listings for them. Bookogs is absurdly hard to navigate and has one of the worst search functions I've ever seen, but there are some noise/industrial zine gems to be found over there if you're willing to do some trial-and-error search fiddling.

EDIT: apparently Bookogs decided to take away the one useful feature of that shit site and has disabled the marketplace function. Feel free to disregard this. There's a suggestion that bookogs' marketplace stuff (music zines etc.) will eventually come under the discogs umbrella, but I can't imagine that'll be any time soon.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 06:23:01 PM by CMSFoundation » Logged
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« Reply #122 on: January 06, 2020, 12:42:23 AM »

Finding old fanzines online is a pain in the ass for sure. Sometimes I randomly find some on eBay. Usually people are only bidding when there's stuff like Throbbing Gristle or Coil inside..
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« Reply #123 on: January 06, 2020, 10:39:23 AM »

There is good interview with Seymour Glass of Bananafish magazine at:
https://www.noisextra.com/2020/01/01/in-conversation-with-seymour-glass-bananafish/

It is interesting, but also kind of annoying reminder about state of things. Amount of people who are really into magazines is rapidly declining. Bananafish is rated as cult magazine by many, yet man still had boxes full of his old issues waiting for people to buy. You can grab them from Tedium House website. Yep, I guess that's the news. There is still good old internet 1.0 html website with items for sale. I found it quite brutal reminder of my own behavior, that I didn't even know Bananafish still had issues available! I just assumed all are gone 15+ years ago.

If you count out Special Interests forum, I do not visit "internet sites" almost at all. Theme could be combined with internet sites disappearing all together. Noiseguide, Heathen Harvest, all the yahoogroups, etc. When one needs the old info and some interview to make quite from... it's likely no longer out there.

It is unfortunate fact that most places I tend to go, is merely platforms of huge businesses, not private websites. Not that I would use much of bandcamp nor most of the social media services either. Been removing most of my own stuff from places like that unless I absolutely don't have other option.

Internet 2.0 is so far from mindset of "magazine", that those who have lived decade on free instant gratification, probably are unlikely to type url, visit store, send email order, wait to be billed, pay (including probably annoying price of shipping) , and wait box to arrive.. might not feel it relevant at all. I can understand that very very easily. Yet one can see that this leads to magazines to cease to exists.

Like mr. Glass says, spending year with project, investing all that time, money and energy, and by each issue getting less back, was not really encouraging. Less - not being less money, but less enthusiasm. I am guessing that not even artists dropping short message of thanking to be included and all the friends just throwing the magazine into piles of "will check later on better time"... haha. I guess it comes down to is that amount of effort mentally equal to be seen only by... 100, 200,.. people? Instead of 500, 1000, 2000...?

Magazine like Bananafish couldn't probably downscale it. I would assume that this is obstacle that perhaps most magazines had. ND, ALAP, Bananafish, and so on... can you just downscale it to level of making it "fun" again - and maintain the spirit of magazine? Hard to say. Although I would say that if next week would be announced series of mini ALAP 'zines consisting all material that was generated over the years, I'd prefer that over several hundred pages book that might or might not get done?


Market for old 'zines...  I was quite surprised at some point when I did discover bookogs. It felt like really needed and good idea, that could potentially fill the gap. Both, selling new inventory, but most of all old stuff. Then, very quickly one could realize that IF the main site Discogs is so touchy about the content, you can be damn sure that any slightly transgressive zine worth buying, any slightly obscure book  you'd be into getting, won't be there after one bozo files complaint.

So, all in all, I would think that despite thinking internet will preserve and make everything visible, actually there is and will be underground culture, that remains to be accessible for limited time and limited amount of people. It might be also good thing, although I'd like to see magazines documenting it, be able to spread 10 fold print runs.
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« Reply #124 on: January 06, 2020, 05:27:19 PM »

Market for old 'zines...  I was quite surprised at some point when I did discover bookogs. It felt like really needed and good idea, that could potentially fill the gap. Both, selling new inventory, but most of all old stuff. Then, very quickly one could realize that IF the main site Discogs is so touchy about the content, you can be damn sure that any slightly transgressive zine worth buying, any slightly obscure book  you'd be into getting, won't be there after one bozo files complaint.

I was thinking about this as well, mainly when I was adding items to the database that had 'mature content'. They do have a checkbox for "This submission might contain offensive or sensitive content" when submitting an entry to the database, but I wonder what purpose that serves. It may only hide the content from search results unless 'allow explicit content' setting is enabled, and the items may still not be allowed in the marketplace.
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« Reply #125 on: January 06, 2020, 06:57:41 PM »

Market for old 'zines...  I was quite surprised at some point when I did discover bookogs. It felt like really needed and good idea, that could potentially fill the gap. Both, selling new inventory, but most of all old stuff. Then, very quickly one could realize that IF the main site Discogs is so touchy about the content, you can be damn sure that any slightly transgressive zine worth buying, any slightly obscure book  you'd be into getting, won't be there after one bozo files complaint.

I was thinking about this as well, mainly when I was adding items to the database that had 'mature content'. They do have a checkbox for "This submission might contain offensive or sensitive content" when submitting an entry to the database, but I wonder what purpose that serves. It may only hide the content from search results unless 'allow explicit content' setting is enabled, and the items may still not be allowed in the marketplace.

Guessing this is a big part of why they shut the marketplace function down recently. Irritating! I had been eyeing an old issue of The Sound Projector over there, which I guess is just back up in someone's attic again for the time being.
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« Reply #126 on: January 06, 2020, 07:12:21 PM »

I have scans of ND 5, 6, 8-10, and 13.  I would be glad to upload them, but it would take a while for me to get to it.  I would think the Die or D.I.Y. blogger might have more of them and might respond to a request.  That's just a guess though.

Here's a link to one of the ND cassettes.
http://dieordiy2.blogspot.com/2015/03/zan-hoffmanagog-fragment-2-n-d-magazine.html

It's too bad Notes From Underground isn't still active.  I would guess most of the links are dead by now.
http://smallprintpress.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #127 on: January 06, 2020, 08:06:36 PM »

It's too bad Notes From Underground isn't still active.  I would guess most of the links are dead by now.
http://smallprintpress.blogspot.com/

I just downloaded 2 from September 2009, looks like the links are still a go!
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« Reply #128 on: January 06, 2020, 08:36:01 PM »

I was digging around on Bookogs but didn't notice a marketplace.  Is there one associated with Bookogs like we see on discogs? 
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« Reply #129 on: January 06, 2020, 08:44:25 PM »

I was digging around on Bookogs but didn't notice a marketplace.  Is there one associated with Bookogs like we see on discogs? 

There was, but they just discontinued it.
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« Reply #130 on: January 06, 2020, 10:10:20 PM »

I have scans of ND 5, 6, 8-10, and 13.  I would be glad to upload them, but it would take a while for me to get to it.  I would think the Die or D.I.Y. blogger might have more of them and might respond to a request.  That's just a guess though.
I would take you up on that if and when you have the time - it's certainly no emergency or anything, your gesture is great enough. That blog is really cool too. I became aware of it a few months ago & was happy to see a healthy selection of City of Worms tapes on there.

Cool to see this thread getting some momentum though. As someone in the tail end of their mid-20's, I essentially grew up with the internet 2.0.
In general I detest it, but that's probably easy for me to say since I don't know what adulthood was like before it. To keep a very, very long story short: I never read pdf's of anything unless there is absolutely no means of obtaining a physical copy.

I was also reassured of a feeling I've had when listening to the Wind Licked Dirt episode of Noisextra, where GX talks about the term 'noise', and before it came to be - mentioning how things were much more open and experimental because it had yet to be a template. That's the shit to me, that's what I feel like is missing today, that's why I'm obsessed with N D.

Cheers

Edit: BIG thanks to CMSFoundation for the info as well, found a local seller who I'm hoping will let me buy some issues of N D in person. Thank you
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 10:22:43 PM by Neanderthal » Logged
Zeno Marx
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« Reply #131 on: January 06, 2020, 11:30:33 PM »

I have scans of ND 5, 6, 8-10, and 13.  I would be glad to upload them, but it would take a while for me to get to it.  I would think the Die or D.I.Y. blogger might have more of them and might respond to a request.  That's just a guess though.
I would take you up on that if and when you have the time - it's certainly no emergency or anything, your gesture is great enough. That blog is really cool too. I became aware of it a few months ago & was happy to see a healthy selection of City of Worms tapes on there.
All the [ND] links at this blog are still good.  JPGs in good quality.  My bet is that is where I got them.

http://smallprintpress.blogspot.com/

It's interesting these folks aren't interested in digitizing their work.  I get it, and I don't.  They could leave it open source so the potential for the more tech savvy could maybe add menus etc.  I constantly use The Crack in the Cosmic Egg light web edition.  I so very appreciate having access to that information; not having to go open my book.  Noisextra often talks about the Wayback Machine Archive.  Information in all forms is good.
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« Reply #132 on: January 07, 2020, 12:17:33 AM »

Edit: BIG thanks to CMSFoundation for the info as well, found a local seller who I'm hoping will let me buy some issues of N D in person. Thank you

Glad to hear it! If you see spare copies of ND issues 1, 2, or 8 there, I'd love to know about it -- assuming you don't get them first, of course!
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« Reply #133 on: January 07, 2020, 11:02:27 AM »



One recent example of a zine I have squinted to read on the internet:  Premature Ejaculation being interviewed by Michael Gira in "NO" Magazine. 

I would not mind a bootleg zine label, honestly.  I read too many pdfs of zines and books online.
Unfortunately, for me the issue is not about enthusiasm.  It is more about a lack of time and space.
Some of us are better at managing time than others, with so many options available. 
In the 80s and 90s, the possibility of living in a decent sized apartment or house was much more plausible for a person of "starving artists" wages. 
Now many of us are living in spaces the size of a thumb tack, unfortunately. 

But I still find a great joy in reading interviews of talented people who somehow found all of these rare and obscure outlets prior to the internet.
I think the art of the interview is yet another lost art at this point.
I think Lingua Ignota and Pharmakon are wildly intelligent, among a few others, but generally, I'm not getting out of interviews what I used to get out of them. 
I think the internet has caused people to ask less daring and ultimately stupid questions more often.  Not that I haven't asked a stupid question or two in my life, of course. 

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« Reply #134 on: January 11, 2020, 02:50:33 AM »

would love if the noisextra people could track down patrick marley of muckraker for an interview too. would probably cover a lot of the same ground as the seymour glass interview, but still. the glass interview could have been a couple hours longer and i'd have stuck around

what is the deal with ALAP? a book is being worked on?
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