Pornography Appreciation / Sexual curiousities / etc topic

Started by FreakAnimalFinland, December 13, 2009, 09:55:35 PM

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FreakAnimalFinland

This was all translated & explained in the paper.

In previous issue of this same newspaper I mentioned, was article about Finnish female artist who did installation with images she found online from easy and assumedly legal sources. No hardcore stuff, but stuff she considered to be sexualization of children and wrong. Showing how society has become accepting towards things like this. Which it hasn't. And therefore, on opening night, one of the guests called police and her piece of art never made it to please the actual artlovers. She got recently sentence for distributing kiddy porn. Some professionals said that like cup/vase can't be removed from its current artform back to simply clay, also those images part of social commentary&art can't return back to their original raw form. And she should not be sentenced based on what pictures were, but looked at what they have become. I strongly dislike this particular professor and his academic queer studies, but I like that idea. I have few ideas for "performance art" what can be done on streets. With baseball bat and installing it temporarily to/through living canvas.

Anyways, seriously, while pretty much nobody saw the images, so it's hard to really credibly tell what they were and what they were not, but I could assume new and old nudist images, printed out art of world wide famous photographers etc.  Here in Finland, even Sally Mann exhibition resulted 9 crime reports to police. I find it quite brutal, that high profile art museum displayed worldwide celebrated high-art what is priced about 20000$ per original, and 9 people get the idea that this must be criminal activity and files report to police...   I guess that's the call for above mentioned performance art to happen.

I should probably mention this is "recommended artbooks" topic, since it ain't porn, basically just opposite. But now on-topic: I just managed to score copy of PAKKALA: "Kuvia Lasten Maailmasta" ("photos of world of children") from 1931. Finnish publisher Gummerus. Found it by accident in antique book store here in Lahti.
Text starts: "adult, who stops for a while for childrens beach, to admire wild competition of the little ones, full of lively and beautiful pictures, feels some kind of sorrow in mind, despite bright voices of children ring in his ears with cute happiness.  Feels like in front of our eys would be piece of forgotten paradice, where one has once lived, but what he can never get back anymore. Being kicked out from paradice didn't happen just once. It's story is eternal. Every human can withness it in their lives. Abandoning the paradice and touch on fruit of tree of knowledge happens so slowly, during the years, during turbulent years of youth, during mystical years, that one doesn't notice it until compared his life as adult to life of children. Memories and emotions creep to your consciousness, so blurred and fragile, so strange and alien, that one has to stop think, are these really memories, or maybe recollections of lost times of happines, or something heard or read , what imagination has transformed and tricks you to think it was you.  Feels like in this childrens beach, at one view you can withness core of everything what is unique for world of children and what separates it from us. Air feels vibrating of joy and happiness of living. Air, water, sun and warm sand joins into joy of children, absorbing their cute naked bodies. Over everything floats the spirit of sweet ignorance and innosence."
And so on. But if you would simply cut out the art photos presented here, and paste it in wall of museum together with model images of adult women, you'd be probably experiencing the very same treatment as woman artist mentioned above. To explain, it is really nearly 80 years old book of artistic study, I guess would be just too hard to understand for perverse minds of today. And perhaps not even being lesbian feminist can save you from the sentence.
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FreakAnimalFinland

Above translation, was by myself. Book is of course in Finnish language. Translation, very bad. Doesn't capture the literature value of actual piece. Sorry about it, hah..
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Andrew McIntosh

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on December 18, 2009, 06:50:59 PM
And then you wonder, why people hate: lesbians, feminists.. well, women in general.
That's why.

Not me. I'd much rather be in the company of women in general than men. What I hate are people who make a big, political deal out of everything. "Feminist Porn" is just another label for smut you can't wank off to but wants to still be regarded as smut anyway. There should be a topic on what's wrong with "feminism" but that's outside the scope of this whole board.

About the art thing - here in Australia there was a big kerfuffle about a famous art photographer, Bill Henson, who had an exhibition which included an image or two of naked teenage girls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Henson#Controversies). The shit-storm that came out of that reached all the way to the prime minister who complained about it being exploitative.

There was also the case of Donald Friend, a renowned Australian painter, who lived in Bali for a while and used to shag young boys; he wrote about it in his diaries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Friend#Diaries). A documentary of his life has come out, mentioning it (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/artworks/stories/2008/2432641.htm). All Friend's artist mates came out to defend him.

The whole distinction between "art" and smut is an interesting one to me. Not the way I would see it, but how it's defined in society. It's hilarious to me how "art" is so vigorously defended by respectable, university educated, middle-class wankers who look down on common clods like me having an occasional wank to some pictures of good looking women. The class snobbery there is just blatant.
Shikata ga nai.

FreakAnimalFinland

I have a skepticism for feminist "smut". Everything I see, is like most of political art. That political values override the original concept. In some art, it may work, but I find pornography as methods of egalitarian politics, to be tainted affair.
Where traditionally a lot of sex was dirty. Exciting. Unusual. Perverse. Part of the thrill was simply the forbidden nature of it. Exceptionality and dysfunctionality. When big part of it became like desperate attempt to please larger crowds with political statements, it felt ruined. I'm talking about porn movies transferred from lust to sex-education with disclaimers and condoms. I'm talking about BDSM magazines turned from fantasies of domination and submission into furry cuffs and love-bondage. Fetish turning from obscure art and perverted obsessions into bling bligh fashion design and disco nights.
Feminist porn doesn't seem like it would be some sort of alternative, but it seems like logical continuum of where things have went for years. Is it... "smut"? I can't give judgement yet, as I have yet to see whole thing. But just like all those Annie Sprinkle, mrs. Harlot etc... their work goes in nature of feminist performance art. It has left realm of "pornography" long ago. It is about making statement, and making art. I have hard time believing that what female want, is this. It seems like feminist plot to manipulate clueless girls. While society is installing certain genre roles, the feminist abuse the situation with thowing crappy shit labeled that this would be the stuff women want. While, I would assume, typical women would probably prefer typical porn movie over the showcase of confused wrecks, gender benders, attention hungry performance artists etc. trying to give some political guidelines and morals, while viewer just wants to rub her clit and cum.

But of course, something not being excactly porn doesn't remove it's potential to being used as one. I used to have the idea to start magazine or publishing company called ART AS PORN / PORN AS ART. Logo would be nice to make very stylish AAP/PAA.  But I guess it is reduced to be just "IOPS journal", although lure of great new name & concept is always there.


I think hating women, and liking to be in their company are two different things. We are civilized anyways? Not like barbaric need to strangulate every person you see. Maybe. I get along very well with middle aged women. I guess that's my speciality. I don't know about teenagers. Modern teenager and urban city girl, outside being object, seems like ruined. Another topic what the newspaper was dealing with was SG girls. I mean come on! "This is the new phase of pornography, created, spreaded by women on their own term and free will". What is the porn about fashion victims & walking cliche's flashing their tits? Some years ago with Nihilist Commando I wrote the song "Suicidal Girls - Homicidal lust". That's the honest emotion I have for that subject matter. Of course I do have SG book and magazine in my collection. Just to prove the point :D
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Andrew McIntosh

Suicide girls - biker chicks with pigtails. Trendy fuckwits not only believe their own hype but generate it. Another pack of pigs pushing their snouts into the trough. What shits me about them and their ilk is that they've bent over and taken it up their pierced, tattooed arses, all the while telling themselves they're "free". Pseudo-individualist, hip capitalist conformists who honestly think they're different.

I think there's a somewhat nostalgic value to when we discover pornography and the sheer thrilling delight of the "naughtiness" of it all, to the over-saturation of today. A lot of the bullshit, commercial x-rated smut that cums out of the American corporate cock is such seamy, tasteless overdose. Hours and hours of bullshit anal gaping, triple insertion, bukkake tsunamis (without the style and grace of the original Japanese concept); I can't argue with those who dig this shit but to me, there's not style, taste, class or thrill. But my tastes are very simple and refined and undemanding: still trying to capture the trill of a hint of cleavage or cunt underneath everyday but seductive clothing. I'd rather impose my own fantasies upon an image than have it shoved at me.

As for me, I much prefer women to men. For the most part I suppose I'm the complete opposite to what you're saying: I hate men but don't mind being in their company. All sorts of good, personal, complicated reasons which I hope to spew forward one day in Noise. My feelings to humanity are the same as the next average, garden variety misanthrope but I tend to dislike the male of the species rather than the female.

Hatred is a noble thing: anyone without hate is without blood. As long as we remain "civilised".
Shikata ga nai.

GEWALTMONOPOL

#20
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on December 19, 2009, 11:59:52 AM
I'd rather impose my own fantasies upon an image than have it shoved at me.  

Hatred is a noble thing: anyone without hate is without blood. As long as we remain "civilised".

I like both those statements.

I do disagree with the rather women than men statement though. As my contempt for parts of humanity remains relatively high I'm naturally more wary of women than men. As amazing as women can be and for all the great things they sometimes do for us they are also capable of horribly evil shit alien to most men. That's based on my experience anyway.
Först när du blottar strupen ska du få nåd, ditt as...

Andrew McIntosh

It's all experiential. The worst misogynists are the ones who pretend not to be. "No, I'm not trying to pick you up, I really like you and I just want to get to know you as a person 'cause you're really interesting".

The divide between the genders is amazingly high among even the most right-on people I know. When I go to parties I can't help but notice that the men and women like to congregate in their own little circles. Both bore me to tears. Thank fuck for pornography!
Shikata ga nai.

GEWALTMONOPOL

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on December 19, 2009, 12:20:42 PM
Thank fuck for pornography!

Asks no questions, doesn't care what you look like or your social status and won't try and change you. I'll go along with that.

My woman mentioned that the men who've treated her the worst have often been those who refer to themselves as feminists. Hardly news to many here probably and it didn't exactly come as a great surprise to me. Interesting none the less.
Först när du blottar strupen ska du få nåd, ditt as...

Andrew McIntosh

Quote from: TheGreatEcstasy on December 19, 2009, 12:26:33 PMMy woman mentioned that the men who've treated her the worst have often been those who refer to themselves as feminists.

Mate, the chicks love it!!

One of the reasons Andrea Dworkin ended up the way she did was because of her anarchist husband. By beating the crap out of her all the time.
Shikata ga nai.

GEWALTMONOPOL

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on December 19, 2009, 12:33:19 PM
One of the reasons Andrea Dworkin ended up the way she did was because of her anarchist husband. By beating the crap out of her all the time.

He obviously didn't beat her enough.
Först när du blottar strupen ska du få nåd, ditt as...

Andrew McIntosh

Oh, I'm a fan. She knew how to hate: nothing bloodless about our Andrea. Her writing, to me, is like a lot of hardcore political extremist writing, only in her case with more of an annoying academic facade. That was her drawback, to me; she was no Valerie Solanas. But there's a lot of good, personal, emotional grit in her writing and she does, I think, point to a few basic home truths about gender warfare. Her big mistake as far as porn was concerned was of course her complete inability to understand that women can be stupid; they where always victims, never instigators or, heaven forfend, idiots just allowing themselves to be used for a few bucks. I should get around to reading her "Right Wing Women", should be interesting to see how she intellectually wiggles around that concept.
Shikata ga nai.

GEWALTMONOPOL

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on December 20, 2009, 02:42:40 AM
Her big mistake as far as porn was concerned was of course her complete inability to understand that women can be stupid; they where always victims, never instigators or, heaven forfend, idiots just allowing themselves to be used for a few bucks.

Or the fact that men who are turned on by the sexual domination of women aren't necessarily violent prone monsters out to destroy all womenkind.
Först när du blottar strupen ska du få nåd, ditt as...

Andrew McIntosh

Exactly. Her context was completely out because of her political dogmatism.
Shikata ga nai.

FreakAnimalFinland

I think it would be nice to make some sort of study, why there is such a big number of films and videos of men dominating women, but magazines tend to be other way round. So much of dominatrix theme magazine, male slaves, men humiliated, men in female clothes humiliated...

There are lots of old books about all subject matter, but I think perhaps still submissive men are more popular?

Comic books in other hand tend to be mostly men dominating women.

Most of music tends to be men dominating women. I know there is some noise dedicated to submission on female force, but that is utmost minority.


I would like that there would be photo/story magazines of anonymous masked men dominating fragile female victims, but such thing doesn't seem to exists. No matter how much you look for, visit specialist bookstores, there are almost any kinds of magazines available, but not those. You need to grab some good s/m comics to get new product with such themes.
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FreakAnimalFinland

Quite often I criticize the lame quality of American Bukkake, and lack of ideas, shitty filming, shitty "acting" (how difficult it is to shoot to target and not spill your cum just on the floor next to girl?), but lets say this time, despite the same crappiness, they got some ideas here:

http://www.tube8.com/fetish/cum-hair-shampoo/199819/

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