GREY WOLVES appreciation thread

Started by HongKongGoolagong, September 29, 2013, 06:35:29 PM

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host body

#75
whole project was based around trolling people. back then it was something different I guess, but seems a bit hollow now.

I do like everything I've heard, even Exit Strategy.

Coiled

Quote from: eraciator on January 11, 2023, 09:52:10 AM
They were called The Grey Wolves and not the Black and/or White Wolves for a reason.

A right wing, Thatcher loving, project is it? Guaranteed entertainment, this place!

The Grey Wolves were an ultranationalist paramilitary. It wasn't some comment about being centrist.

HONOR_IS_KING!

After meeting Dave (he pulled up to the God Is War show in Manchester) its very obvious that the group was never right wing fucking anything. And Dave supporting a Tory? Hahahahahahahahaha.

Got flowers from two of Manchesters finest now, lets keep it coming.
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Goat93

Quote from: Coiled on May 20, 2023, 03:00:03 PM
Quote from: eraciator on January 11, 2023, 09:52:10 AM
They were called The Grey Wolves and not the Black and/or White Wolves for a reason.

A right wing, Thatcher loving, project is it? Guaranteed entertainment, this place!

The Grey Wolves were an ultranationalist paramilitary. It wasn't some comment about being centrist.

Please mention that it is a Turkish ultranationalist paramilitary Organzisation.

Andrew McIntosh

Quote from: Goat93 on May 22, 2023, 07:49:24 PM
Quote from: Coiled on May 20, 2023, 03:00:03 PM
Quote from: eraciator on January 11, 2023, 09:52:10 AM
They were called The Grey Wolves and not the Black and/or White Wolves for a reason.

A right wing, Thatcher loving, project is it? Guaranteed entertainment, this place!

The Grey Wolves were an ultranationalist paramilitary. It wasn't some comment about being centrist.

Please mention that it is a Turkish ultranationalist paramilitary Organzisation.

Yea, I was never sure if The Grey Wolves the band actually derived their name from The Grey Wolves the Turkish paramilitary organisation or not. It's not an issue if they did or not, I've always just been curious about that. There's probably an interview somewhere that explains it.
Shikata ga nai.

tiny_tove

Quote from: Coiled on January 09, 2023, 03:39:39 PM
GW were a right-wing project,
nope they were not
name was linked to some sub-branch of TOPY, they stated this several times since day one. strategy is classic use power to criticize power (and piss off everyone)

They used shock tactics like many others in a very vehement and tasty way, but their background was into Crass and TOPY not Turkish nationalism. Even if it would have been a huge provocation, same as con-dom.

I highly suggest to get the open wound magazines were they explain some tactics and suggest actions.

The cultural terrorist manifesto as well as the DPI manifesto give some hints.

There was a - partly wrong - analysis of them and others published by lefties "the unacceptable face of freedom" that I suggest to write. It doesn't clarify but is a classic attempt interpret something the left wing author doesn't fully get.

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tiny_tove

this is the article I mentioned: http://media.hyperreal.org/zines/est/articles/freedom.html

this article fails in the interpretation of the tactics, but states also some interesting things.

and this is a nice interview to the gentlemen appeared on Descent magazine.

http://thule.primordial.org.ua/pontifex/wolves.htm
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Phenol

Two very interesting reads. Can you elaborate on how the lefty guy got industrial imagery and tactics wrong? Not disagreeing with you, just think there's an interesting conversation there.

I, for one, think there's some interesting perspectives in this information war thing, especially today where pretty much all information and misinformation is out there on equal terms and can be hard to distinguish from oneanother. I think Grey Wolves downplay their own role as information gatherers and curators when they say that they simply put information out there for anyone to make up their own mind. The information they collected is not neutral. It's gathered, put together, cut up, re-assembled into a coherent artistic vision that is absolutely personal even if it's not politically or ideologically opinionated in a particular direction (I think cynicism is an ideological standpoint too, so maybe their political agenda is just brutish and incoherent, but not absent?). This whole line of thought makes me think of motives, especially given the lefty essay, but also in the light of the Agonal Lust interview on WCN the other day - is simply digging into the dark side of reality or the imagination because that's what makes you tick dangerous? Well maybe, but isn't that also the point? I doubt there's many industrialists who aim to please those with "normie" interests or a political agenda to ensure everyones' safety, prosperity and wellbeing. Maybe we (some of us) actually aim to hurt? Just some thoughts...

Goat93

I don't remember where iread it, but it nailed it:

"It is not about what it is, its about what others want it to be"




FreakAnimalFinland

Quote from: Phenol on May 25, 2023, 11:19:15 AM
Two very interesting reads. Can you elaborate on how the lefty guy got industrial imagery and tactics wrong? Not disagreeing with you, just think there's an interesting conversation there.

Not question directed to me, but as its public forum, I may say that perhaps, what he "got wrong" is sort of firm political stand. To give example. Not long ago, for the usual reasons, there was Finnish language discussion going on under title of "fascism & noise scene". Despite title could suggest opportunity to observe how does fascism appear in noise scene, what are the vast ideological differences, aesthetics, reasons, motivations with both: artists flirting with fascism and artists who might be legitimate fascists of some sort. It could allow to observe historical significance, or lack of it. And many many more ways to approach the topic. However, if you got certain types of people talking, the only way that it is being talked is (and.. can be?) who are the fascist, and how we could throw them out of our noise community.

This formerly linked article is certainly way way way more advanced observation. Regardless of that, author is so firmly rooted in his political standpoint, that he is unable to accept artists approach. Nor he appears to have interest in detail beyond level of how it enable to make these political conclusions.

Lets say, namedropping AWB label is curious in this article. Some may remember their infamous full page advertisement in rather big circulation industrial magazine, with "To suit variety of tastes, AWB recording artists are RACISTS, OCCULTISTS & SADISTS. Under the caps-on words you'll find Terre Blanche (racists), Sigillum S (occultists) and Intrinsic Action (sadists) 7"s being promoted. Advertisement appears like the exploitation paper back of mens adventure stories.

Of course we can simply conclude that fuck these racists or racism normalizers. For me, more interesting could be to dig deeper, regardless can clear answers be found at all. You could wonder why TB had zero antisemitic qualities, while that being quite dominating quality in USA racial industrial? Heated rants of personal experienced in old interview or such could be curious reading. Wonder what is the differences of Control Resistance, Brehren, assorted Warcom projects, Blood Axis, NON or whatever.

I'd reduce just into couple points:
-From perspective of industrial culture, like clearly expressed by both artists and author of that linked text, one of major points is to enable people think without (or at least will less) conditioned responses. Author of text argues that such notion fails to acknowledge perhaps legitimate causes that conditioned the reaction. Arguing that guy who has NF carved to his door with knife and burning rags inserted into mailbox he got reason for conditioned response against nazis and doesn't need to analyse mild differences. Sure. Would be curious to ask if his logic is valid also when someone had same experience with bunch of... lets just say bad experiences with other type of people?

-From perspective of industrial culture, it feels strange if kind of moralist standpoint or clarity is demanded. Author may be firmly political, who hopes things making sense and to have clear direction according to consensus of time and place where he was writing this. Fine, but thinking that such qualities must be agreed by the others as well is the odd part. Industrial culture may enable one to look into even personally difficult things from new perspectives. It may also be subversive in ways that really creeps out people. It also creeps out, because they got real concern what is people don't "get it" in a way he does. What if people aren't liberal or leaning to values you personally feel are right?

One hot topic may be question of violence. Like Grey Wolves mentions in letter published in the article, violence is true revolutionary act. Well, not on those exact words, but instead of ambiguity, pretty clearly declaring violence as a legitimate weapon of change. One of most crucial elements of sovereign state, is that violence is state monopoly. It is the core quality of society or existing state, that rights to use violence is monopoly of state authority. Insisting or glorifying pacifism of person (or art) in my eyes is odd. What is someone can understand specific artists work endorsement of violence? What type of violence? How and what to think of violence - perhaps one can ponder while listening some good album of The Grey Wolves? It may be different emotion, that to do it while listening Taint.
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Strömkarlen

Quote from: tiny_tove on May 24, 2023, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: Coiled on January 09, 2023, 03:39:39 PM
GW were a right-wing project,
nope they were not

I would say they were a Benson & Hedges and a pint(s) at the pub project.

snakeradical

Anyone as original grey wolves fanzines?
That could show /post  pics or scans

Thank you !

cantle

I bought some years and years ago off ebay- If I can find them I'll try to do some scans


host body

#89
current cultural atmosphere does not allow groups such as grey wolves to operate in the murky grey area that was so fertile for artists in the 80s and 90s. if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc. seems to be the mantra of the younger generation, even tho it's wholly ridiculous when applied to art.