Radicalisation in society

[acsenger]

There might also be a lot of illegal immigrants in (Western) Europe. I guess many from North Africa still go by boat to France, Italy, Spain etc.? Someone will correct me if that's no longer the case.

They are pro-Israel (anti-Islam), as opposed to the more antisemite movements in Eastern Europe.

In Hungary, as elsewhere, the far right is getting  stronger. The strongest party has been in the parliament as an opposition party for some years now. They're a populist, antisemitic and anti-gypsy (gypsies present one of the biggest social problems in the country) party. They always deny these qualities but it doesn't change the facts. Some time ago one of their prominent members discovered his grandparents were Jewish and as a result he was ousted from the party (of course, the party denied this was the reason). If someone on the far right in the country were pro-Israel, I think they'd get lynched...
There are other elements on the far right which are downright catastrophic (they want to pretty much close Hungary's relations to Western Europe; some want to introduce an old, non-Latin form of alphabet which no one can read; many believe Hungarians were the first people on Earth, their language the first language, etc.). Their popularity is slowly rising because they address a lot of issues that mainstream parties don't address in a way that seems genuine to the people, or they simply turn a blind eye. The worsening life quality and economic situation is another factor.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I moved the message above as it had nothing to do with "political correctness"...

News of Stockholm at the moment? heh...

Only guy arrested at the moment is a finnish guy haha.
My homeland pride spiked a good 10% at least. I hope he had a knife with him to really make the stereotype into reality.

Well, situation is that he's 18 year old, born in Finland, but apparently not lived here. African father and Finnish mother, born in Finland, but life in Sweden,...  It makes one ask how to define nationality unless for something more concrete than location where you happened to exit the womb? You know, if mother would have been in china at moment of birth, would anyone ever claim this guy is "Chinese"? Maybe he'd have official paper to prove it, but it wouldn't change a thing.

So half african, half finn, swedish talking guy living in sweden - that sounds like contemporary Swede to me ;)

[kettu]

Thats too bad, doesnt sound very finnish at all. I had hopes of a middle aged guy getting involved.
But the finnish press grabs anything, good or bad and makes a big deal out of it if it has any connection to finland.
Maybe in all small counries this happens but here its especially a big thing. Whatever celebritys great great grandfather was part finn and youll be reading about it etc.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROTHCO-ANTIRIOT-SHIELD-CLEAR-POLYCARBONATE-ANTI-RIOT-BLANK-/400435595566?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item5d3bd2492e#ht_925wt_779

[ARKHE]

Supposedly there was a bunch of skinheads forming a vigilant crew to "secure" the Stockholm suburbs last night. The cops seemed to let them have some fun for a while, beat up some kids, before they were driven away. Meanwhile the unrest is spreading to smaller cities like Örebro and Linköping (bored kids & thugs see their opportunity to cause some havoc on their neighborhoods). When they're not burning cars, they settle for schools and kindergartens. White, middle-class leftwing academics apologizing without any consideration of individual responsibility, while the opposite side just can't seem to figure out why one group can be disgruntled with their situation when they themselves have an OK life. In between you find immigrants re-living the war chaos (on a smaller stage of course, no US drone attacks coming down yet) they fled from, whom nobody really cares about.

So half african, half finn, swedish talking guy living in sweden - that sounds like contemporary Swede to me ;)

yes the Finnish occupational forces have nestled far into the Swedish blood strains... our once proud race is forever doomed

[bitewerksMTB]

I'm trying to watch a video about the Swedish riots entitled "They don't want to integrate" (damn thing keeps freezing up). They're  receiving Government benefits* & housing, right? Does not wanting to integrate mean they're not learning to speak or read in the language of the country they have relocated to?  Always seemed to be the first thing one would do before moving to another country...

*The video answered that question: Yes! They do receive all sorts of wonderful benefits.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Not everybody move due specially wanting to, but due necessity. It might not be much of their interest to integrate to culture where they ended up more or less due just wanting get away from war or other potentially lethal situation. And which contains plenty of elements giving impression that integration can't happen or should not happen. And which they also might feel compromises their own identity.

Friend told case in library, where Russian guy was walking and bounced lightly to black guy while passing by. Black guy said in fluent finnish "go back to russia!" (translation doesn't do much justice for used slur). That's integration, hah! Afro-finn hating Russians... for what? ;)

[ARKHE]

Rumour has it that the newspapers are paying kids to torch cars, so they can get good headlines. I really hope that is true. 7.000 sek, approx. 700 euro, supposedly. Think that's about a month's welfare for these neighborhoods.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

This was also in Finnish media. I guess it can be kind of misunderstanding. That what they pay for is to get good photos etc. But why you'd wait with your camera someone to torch the place, when you or your friend does it and you take good pics and take the cash?

Anyways, I've concluded many times that now with many of these situations happening and the climate we have in many european countries, it's in moment of still pretty much functioning and even flourishing society. If things are like this, when vast amounts of people are doing better than ever in history of mankind, lets see what situation is when some true crisis hits in...

Finland is decreasing huge amounts of police personnel and stations as well as army bases. I believe Sweden hardly has army to speak of. This case ARKHE mentioned, of  vigilante crews formed to protect neighborhoods... news reports mentioned of immigrants being shocked by army of up to couple hundred white thugs running towards them, with mere 6 cops between - certainly unable to stabilize situation. Then one can wait what exactly happens when the vigilante crowd gets big enough, and state doesn't even have power to control or prevent it.

[ARKHE]

Read a short notice about Finnish journalists receiving death threats from what I suppose are Fennomaniac nationalists for their support of the status of Swedish in your country. Is this an ongoing debate over the sea?

(Put this in this thread as it relates to growing nationalism turning more violent, + increasing threats against journalists both online and in the flesh)

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Hah... quite curious that such thing makes into papers in Sweden.. or anywhere. Some journalist gets e-mail where someone says her family should be killed. She gets good laugh about it, when tells husband, he's not so happy about it. Goes to papers most likely due recent media attention of similar cases.

Internet gave possibility for everybody to do anything with little (if any) effort. This means that most useless mindfart may be voiced, yet should it be considered real genuine death threat or something else - who knows.
There has been ongoing debate about all sorts of journalists and scientist receiving threats and shitmail - especially if they deal with topics as multicultural and immigration. While one could have sympathy for university scientist who just does his job and starts to receive unwanted hatemail... at the same time when there are articles about it where scientist showed his recent "hatemail" which was links to Pekka Siitoin youtube clips, I was like "AAARRRGHHH!!!"  That is THIS the level of threats, and what are these crybabies doing on pages of newspapers?!  And the other cases where it really is not about objective scientist, but person very vocal and very provocative against other groups of people with other politics. And then goes cry on papers when she gets what was expected for such provocations... 

But about status of Swedish language, I think quite many oppose the fact that every citizen has mandatory swedish language in school from 7th grade onwards. Simply due fact that it's not optional. There has been attempts to offer possibility to choose other 3rd language (besides Finnish & English), for example Russian. That is much much more useful language for entire eastern part of Finland who have little if any connect to Swedish culture of west coast of Finland... But no. It would be against the law. I studied 6 years of swedish, and kind of regret that was stubbornly against it. Think how many good swedish sleaze magazines I have I could understand properly!

[tiny_tove]

I am impressed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/18/turkish-man-silent-vigil-taksim-square

[tisbor]

I am impressed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/18/turkish-man-silent-vigil-taksim-square

I'm sure this will become a fad in protesting methods!
Also, add some black plastic bags and you get a large-scale Vomir style protest.

[tiny_tove]

we should suggest him!!!

[Bob]

"They don't want to integrate"

Means that they already have there own culture which makes the indigenus swedish one to them quite simply absurd. But statistically the nordic countries like Norway, Sweden etc they are in decline there populations are not growing there are more deaths than births in a year for these people so basicaly they are disapearing. Unlike the imigrant populations who will not decline but grow rapidly.

According to European Union statistics, an estimated 574,000 Muslims lived in Sweden in 2012, making up 6.05 percent of the population, compared to 1998, when there were 284,000 Muslims, or 3.21 percent of the total population.

The EU currently estimates that at current rates of growth, the Muslim population will reach 40 percent of the total population in Sweden by 2030.

They need to grow some balls and govern themselves and understand that it is there teritory and that they are the law !

[burdizzo]

This is happening in every European country - certainly weatern European ones. It amazes me that 'society' doesn't seem to care that much. I suppose, the values of modern liberal capitalism dictate that anything that makes money is ok, and more people (consumers) equals more 'growth'. Doesn't matter where the extra people come from. It's a bit like growing a tree in a flower-pot, if you ask me - eventually it becomes unsustainable.
The other problem is, that now countries are basically unable to make their own laws due to the influence of the EU, and the EU champions the liberal capitalist model above all. I could never understand either, why countries would be so keen to give up their independence to be subsumed into the EU, but again, I suppose, it all comes down to money...