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Author Topic: Wolves among sheep - English version of Italian book on NSBM  (Read 42561 times)
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tiny_tove
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« on: January 24, 2013, 11:40:02 PM »



I am not a follower of the genre, but I have been following the making of this book and it is definitely turning interesting. Neither propaganda nor spoof.
Unfortunately in Italian only. The book is written by the guys behind the ur-folk magazine Occidental congres.

http://www.tsunamiedizioni.it/

check also he limited edition

« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 05:33:56 PM by tiny_tove » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2013, 12:29:19 AM »

Not sure if its that i'm not a teenager anymore, but the Phrases are somekind of dead boring. NSBM one of the fearest musical genres? Fuck, most people doesn#t even know that something like this exists. And i don#t think i need another Book about it.  Its not like a Fantasy Roman or so. Funnily NSBM where a Genre the People went to avoid Commercial Desasters...and now its even for every little girl Like Black Metal itself.
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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2013, 08:49:16 AM »

Where does it say NSBM is one of fearest musical genres?

Doesn't it say that "towards end of 90's black metal - by then one of the most feared...". And that could be seen as fact. How many music genres create media hysteria for example? In the 90's, at least in Finland, there was quite steady news reports of satanism as well as all sorts of educators writing books or talking of dangers of BM and satanic underground etc. Reports of arsons, murders, all sorts of things.  Only other music style I can think of, would be "gangsta rap", but that being so distant issue overseas, it would be hardly relevant here.
How much "fear" would music genre create - possibly very little, but out of all genres there are, some are probably causing more fear or simply repulsion.

Nowadays, it's hard to say what other music genres get so often banned from live gigs or face such opposition? As much as I understand people would say NSBM is such a joke and nobody takes it seriously and nobody knows or cares, it STILL today remains as thing that makes into newspapers, gets activists alert and even bring opposing forces in streets once in a while. It doesn't happen because someone thinks "oh, this is so funny and cute, lets try to sabotage the planned live show". There is - if not fear - then genuine worry for certain aspects.


There are couple academic black metal studies going on in Finland. One is just about to get into moment of debate and if accepted, it will create of more guy with "doctor of philosophy" -position. Swedish language work, 200 pages, translated the name is something like WARRIORS AND TRANSEXUALS. It's studies gender roles and such among Finnish black metal, based on study of heteronormative things, via various queer theories. Pretty amazing conclusions. There is free PDF in swedish if someone is interested... haha..

Another is "NSBM" study, already been work for many years. Not sure when it's supposed to be ready.
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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2013, 09:11:52 AM »

Nowadays, it's hard to say what other music genres get so often banned from live gigs or face such opposition?

Grime is a genre which has made politicians speak out and police ban events in the UK. Whole culture of it fed into our 2011 riots. If I had to choose between merits of music, would prefer the NSBM if listening at home alone, grime if on a night out...
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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2013, 10:30:19 AM »

Quote
Where does it say NSBM is one of fearest musical genres?
I read it in the whole Sentence, if you cut only the First Part, it makes no Sense of course.


Quote
How many music genres create media hysteria for example?

In the 90ties or generelly?

In the 90ties where Heavy Metal (specially Death Metal), Punk, Skin/RAC, Techno, Rap/HipHop, Reggae,Hardcore, Alternative/Grunge in bad Reputation thanks to some nice Media Visions. They tried this at nearly all Youth Culture Scenes. Oh, i forgot Gothic of course. In the 2000er they used Neofolk for example, too. After that it went on with NSBM in specially. Most Reputation got the whole Time Left Music (for example Punk) and Right Music (RAC and later NSBM, since they share same NS Letters) and some HipHop/Rap Stuff (in France this was really a thing. Some Flame Wars in Germany got also much more Interest than any BM/NSBM Story.)

Quote
It doesn't happen because someone thinks "oh, this is so funny and cute, lets try to sabotage the planned live show". There is - if not fear - then genuine worry for certain aspects.

I fear thats not the Point (In Germany). Its too easy to Boycott/Cancel Shows and the Politics get too much Attention for that. Its just a Playtoy for the People. The Canceld Allerseelen Gig some Years ago where used from a Local Politican for Reputation. So far i know where Christa Jenal the last really enthusiastic Boycott Maniac in Metal Scene. Today you can cancel a Gig with some E-Mails, so i think for People it IS funny to do so.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 11:53:15 AM by Goat93 » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2013, 12:06:51 PM »

Hyperbole is stock in trade for any music genre. Black Metal prefers the pretentious, serious, stiff-upper-nostril kind of hype - big whoop. It makes tedious reading. Personally I prefer the pure black fire of Black Metal to the pretentious genital rubbing of its descriptions.

There are couple academic black metal studies going on in Finland. One is just about to get into moment of debate and if accepted, it will create of more guy with "doctor of philosophy" -position. Swedish language work, 200 pages, translated the name is something like WARRIORS AND TRANSEXUALS. It's studies gender roles and such among Finnish black metal, based on study of heteronormative things, via various queer theories. Pretty amazing conclusions. There is free PDF in swedish if someone is interested... haha..

Oh for fuck's sake...! Want to have a career with absolutely zero integrity? Become an academic!
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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2013, 12:44:16 PM »

Quote
Where does it say NSBM is one of fearest musical genres?
I read it in the whole Sentence, if you cut only the First Part, it makes no Sense of course.

If you read the sentence, "feared" refers to black metal BEFORE NSBM. Later sentence talks about what later became of this already feared genre.

Of course every youth culture faces opposition of some sort, but certainly it is different kind of fear to shock parents that are shocked by spandex guys singing of putting log into fireplace, or be alarmed by drugged rave dancers or grunge rockers etc. Than genre which theoretically presented threat to common citizen in ways of arsons or such.

Grime certainly appears to be good to point out, but from Finnish perspective, that is again something very distant and in our country not relevant culture at all... Of course the same thing applies for BM in many other countries.  In our country, metal is THE popular culture. Even black metal is widely known cultural phenomena, not just barely existing underground subculture.
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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2013, 02:51:38 PM »

I was planning to get the book but maybe I want this instead:

Quote
WARRIORS AND TRANSEXUALS. It's studies gender roles and such among Finnish black metal, based on study of heteronormative things, via various queer theories.
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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2013, 06:13:49 PM »

Interested in that PDF in Swedish, do you have any author name or original title Mikko?


Writings about the Black Metal phenomenon is about as tedious as it can become, especially this wave of "black metal theory" espoused by US scholars & that Liturgy guy. But an insightful study of the actual ideology/-ies of the NSBM "scene" would be interesting, since there's a lot of writing coming from that corner (at least all the stuff Vikernes' writes, would be worth a study in itself). What are they actually saying, what do they support etc, from Hitler worship to Spear of Longinus' yoga of NS... Seems most who write on BM enjoys it themselves enough to become apologetic - "oh but Burzum isn't really about aryan mysticism & European supremacy at all, just listen to the music" etc, bracketing out NSBM. Not that I find it that central to black metal culture myself though...
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2013, 12:34:13 AM »

Quote
Where does it say NSBM is one of fearest musical genres?
I read it in the whole Sentence, if you cut only the First Part, it makes no Sense of course.

If you read the sentence, "feared" refers to black metal BEFORE NSBM. Later sentence talks about what later became of this already feared genre.

Of course every youth culture faces opposition of some sort, but certainly it is different kind of fear to shock parents that are shocked by spandex guys singing of putting log into fireplace, or be alarmed by drugged rave dancers or grunge rockers etc. Than genre which theoretically presented threat to common citizen in ways of arsons or such.

Grime certainly appears to be good to point out, but from Finnish perspective, that is again something very distant and in our country not relevant culture at all... Of course the same thing applies for BM in many other countries.  In our country, metal is THE popular culture. Even black metal is widely known cultural phenomena, not just barely existing underground subculture.

Is your Point just only from Finland?

BM where in the 90ties already Chartmusic with massive Sellings (1997 where already Chartentries from Bands) and such you called Feared? Seems, that i have just a total Different Understanding of a feared Culture.
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2013, 11:01:04 AM »

In 1997 a lot of things were different than in the early 90s, when BM started to grow. It was stupid, how upset some people were about it, yet had no clue what it was. There were very serious television debates and "documentaries" here in Sweden dealing with this "threat".
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2013, 12:19:07 PM »

Metal where Debatted all the Time and mostly there where no Difference between Metal, Death Metal or Black Metal at all. This starts with the Reporting after the Murder in 1993. In the 80ties there where Media Spots about Evil Satanic Metal Shit with Slayer or Venom. Even National Socialism Shit with Bathory, Slayer ect started really early so i see not the Point, why Black Metal would be feared at all, since other Bands takes much more Responsible or Attention than this. Even in School we have had some Music/Social Debattes about Metal, Rap, Punk and mostly Skinheadmusic since in Germany most ridicoulus is Right Winged Stuff. But i see a Difference between talking about a Noie Werte Song Lyric and a Burzum for example. In other Countries the Reaction where also more to the Music Genres which where Popular at that Time. Rap where fucking Big (and there where a lot of Show Cancels, Demos or whatever cause of Antifeminism, Anti Gay, Anti Humanity ect Lyrics and Spots of this Music). Surely there where Debates and Media Infos and some sort of this Shit, but thats not really what i called "feared" or even one of the most "feared" Genres. For example they put Black Metal in Middle 2000 in some TV Shows and Series as Theme, Skinhead Stuff where already in the Beginning of the 90ties in TV as Movies or TV Sets who want to "Inform" the People about "Dangerous" Codes. We have had fucking laught about some TV Series where they tried to show the Secret Meaning of 88/14 Word ect to the People...idiotic at the best but that was Beginning of the 90ties, not now. Otherwise the Movie about the Gay Murder in Sweden in the 90ties went under, nobody cared about it at all. Most people doesn't even know it exists, after all it was shown in normal TV Program several times.

Hey, they made already a bigger deal about Eminem, Marylin Manson or even this Hirntot records Guys who went into Jail some Years ago as about der Stürmer oder Wolfnacht.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 12:21:12 PM by Goat93 » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2013, 11:17:33 PM »

regarding the "feared". NSBM is feared in Russia, Greece, ecc. and some places like that because some people who plays in thes bands have actually been involved in criminal/violent activities, unlike average BM fans.
it is not a BIG business as older BM was, but it created a sub-genre that has its follow up, codes, etc.
It is not an underground scene that will change the world, but for how despisable it might be, it is living a life on its own. Gigs gather some hundreds of people even when completely clandestine. Antifas band their drums to stop gigs and stress the media, ecc.

The two writers focused for over two years on trying to gather first hand source materiale, going through both the most well-known projects and the most borderline stuff (even from Malesya!!!) uncovering contraddiction and trying to describe the background and the evolution of something that may be uninteresting to the most but still has some interesting features.

I am not defending their work since they do not need my help and the book, from what I could see, is turning out as it was supposed to be, setting the right parts in their place, unlike the horrible articles/books published by the likes of Searchlight and Wmtn, where often non-nazi stuff has been convered with "militant" stuff.

An example of cultural honesty that is rare these days.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 03:12:28 PM by tiny_tove » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2013, 11:46:47 AM »

Quote
Where does it say NSBM is one of fearest musical genres?
I read it in the whole Sentence, if you cut only the First Part, it makes no Sense of course.

If you read the sentence, "feared" refers to black metal BEFORE NSBM. Later sentence talks about what later became of this already feared genre.

Of course every youth culture faces opposition of some sort, but certainly it is different kind of fear to shock parents that are shocked by spandex guys singing of putting log into fireplace, or be alarmed by drugged rave dancers or grunge rockers etc. Than genre which theoretically presented threat to common citizen in ways of arsons or such.

Grime certainly appears to be good to point out, but from Finnish perspective, that is again something very distant and in our country not relevant culture at all... Of course the same thing applies for BM in many other countries.  In our country, metal is THE popular culture. Even black metal is widely known cultural phenomena, not just barely existing underground subculture.

Is your Point just only from Finland?

BM where in the 90ties already Chartmusic with massive Sellings (1997 where already Chartentries from Bands) and such you called Feared? Seems, that i have just a total Different Understanding of a feared Culture.

I can't speak much for what is cultural climate in, lets say Peru. What would be their "feared music genre". I live in Finland and therefore I can easily see the "satanic"/"bm" hysteria what was in 90's. I don't think anyone gave fuck about Bathory or Slayer more even to extent of WASP or KISS. Popularity and media attention was what resulted the hysteria, not their underground status.

As you said before, why fear something you don't even know because it is so small.  So this logically leads, that certain amount of popularity and publicity is needed, until something can create fear. Scenario doesn't mean that there can't be little girls excited about the music and bands appearing in media on popular culture - that might be exactly what is needed, before phenomena can be said "feared".  One needed BM murders and arsons appear on newspapers and TV and bands to sell tens of thousands, before it was seen as real threat.

Is it feared or is it threat, is pretty much useless for me. Most of black metal happens for very different reasons than whether media or "outsiders" are shocked or in fear.



Svenska pojkar kan läsä här!

Krigaren och transvestiten : gestaltningar av mörker och maskuliniteter i finländsk black metal

https://www.doria.fi/handle/10024/87571

"Mönstren analyseras med hjälp av teorier om hegemonisk maskulinitet, heteronormativitet, genusperformativitet, subversivitet och protestmaskulinitet. Queerteori och (kritisk) mansforskning som har sina ursprung i feministisk forskning utgör avhandlingens teoretiska underlag."

HAHAHAH!!!!
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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2013, 07:18:40 PM »

Krigaren och transvestiten : gestaltningar av mörker och maskuliniteter i finländsk black metal

https://www.doria.fi/handle/10024/87571

"Mönstren analyseras med hjälp av teorier om hegemonisk maskulinitet, heteronormativitet, genusperformativitet, subversivitet och protestmaskulinitet. Queerteori och (kritisk) mansforskning som har sina ursprung i feministisk forskning utgör avhandlingens teoretiska underlag."

HAHAHAH!!!!


Well now you know what the goat represents in your own lyrics then...
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