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Author Topic: underground / art / avantgarde comics  (Read 31686 times)
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Black_Angkar
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« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2012, 11:24:17 PM »

Well I DO like a lot of the first real wave of feminist artists, as I do some of the absurdist wordless comics, and some biography, but there is this tendency towards establishing this genres, making them "cool" and acceptable and still not acknowledging comics for what it is and always has been. There are of course good stuff out there, depending on ones tastes, but Sweden is still nowhere near breaking the taboos that still makes great fantastic comics art derided or ignored. There has been attempts made obviously but they have mostly been quite poor as there is NO standard for comics in either the american or franco-european tradition. I was reading an example of some feminist comics artist this morning and thought that this is really losing its appeal no matter what you think of feminism. There is no point in applauding dull formulaic stuff which kicks in doors already open or tackles subjects with far less finesse and wit than others have done before. I would prefer a climate that was open for everything, ranging from the most extreme underground to a general acceptance of comic books/graphic novels as a true format (OK I must admit it ain't as bad as when I was a teenager, people do not think you're a retard for reading Sandman but that is mostly in regards  to foreign comics as the swedish production IS mired in the examples mentioned).
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hsv
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« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2012, 09:01:24 PM »

There is no point in applauding dull formulaic stuff which kicks in doors already open or tackles subjects with far less finesse and wit than others have done before. I would prefer a climate that was open for everything, ranging from the most extreme underground to a general acceptance of comic books/graphic novels as a true format

My thoughts exactly... it's getting older by the day. Even if I don't appreciate for example Liv Strömquist, I can respect her for having her own way of doing comics, a respect that doesn't really extend to a lot of her followers who are doing the same thing, but worse. And there are a few storytellers but no real innovators, mostly ripoffs/careerists who try to "do it by the book" (with this and that pen, software etc) but don't really have any new ideas.
I can definitely like even the much hated black & white sociorealism, when it's done good, but with the trends and herd mentality, you'll get one nugget and 85% shit... maybe if there was a more wide range of styles and genres, people would be able to find something they're good at instead of imitating and sucking at it.
Too bad I'm such a lousy illustrator, else I would be working in comics for sure.

By the way, to keep things on topic: I just read the new reiusse of Ed the happy clown, from Drawn & Quarterly. I guess the main addition in this one is Brown's notes for the text, which give some interesting perspectives into the artistic process. But mostly a good reason to re-read an excellent comic.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 09:03:33 PM by hsv » Logged

Black_Angkar
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« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2012, 03:14:23 AM »

There is no point in applauding dull formulaic stuff which kicks in doors already open or tackles subjects with far less finesse and wit than others have done before. I would prefer a climate that was open for everything, ranging from the most extreme underground to a general acceptance of comic books/graphic novels as a true format

My thoughts exactly... it's getting older by the day. Even if I don't appreciate for example Liv Strömquist, I can respect her for having her own way of doing comics, a respect that doesn't really extend to a lot of her followers who are doing the same thing, but worse. And there are a few storytellers but no real innovators, mostly ripoffs/careerists who try to "do it by the book" (with this and that pen, software etc) but don't really have any new ideas.
I can definitely like even the much hated black & white sociorealism, when it's done good, but with the trends and herd mentality, you'll get one nugget and 85% shit... maybe if there was a more wide range of styles and genres, people would be able to find something they're good at instead of imitating and sucking at it.
Too bad I'm such a lousy illustrator, else I would be working in comics for sure.

By the way, to keep things on topic: I just read the new reiusse of Ed the happy clown, from Drawn & Quarterly. I guess the main addition in this one is Brown's notes for the text, which give some interesting perspectives into the artistic process. But mostly a good reason to re-read an excellent comic.

Luckily basically ALL EPIX comics besides a few are issueas are available at 2nd hand store. I re-buy misplaced issues veery now and then basically cause I misplaced the originals. That was fucking amazing, reading S Clay Wilson and all the europeans (from manara to the radicals) and knowing that you werewn't really suposed to read this but they let you because they didn't have a clue (my parents took away my turtkles but never POX). As for the "feminist wave" I think MOST of the early ones work perfectly fine without the "Feminist tag". Nina HEmmingson is just pure angst humor, which is delightful. Also Sara Granér delivers sarcasm and unbelievable amounts of sarcasm, them I love. LIV I can see why she's become feminist icon, anbd I'm not so fond of her, but I still think she fits her own style. This also goes for Nanna Johansson. But after that, its just tedious boring shit. The stuff I've sennanyway,.
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FreakAnimalFinland
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« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2012, 01:24:03 PM »

I think new Ed The Happy Clown print will be soon in Finnish? At least I had such recollection someone said there is one coming and now would be about the best time to sell the old pressings for "collectors prices" before new improves/updated edition is done. The new hardcover on D&Q includes... was it c. 3 or 5 more pages compared to the late 80's Finnish edition. So story doesn't end where it "originally" ended, but few more pages + extensive liner-notes.

From Chester Brown, I think even more recommended "Paying for it". See Tommy C mention in other comic topic:
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=1277.msg10668#msg10668  (middle of page)
I bought it instantly after seeing recommendation, and since then I know at least 2 finns who bought it due my recommendation and everybody concluded it kills.


I think Finnish comics is currently living strange times. Or it has been for a long. Publishing is focused around couple of festivals and "serious collectors" who'd like to keep up with what comes out, may have to face quiet moments with very little happening, and then suddenly Helsinki comic fest and booom !!! 150 new titles out.  Just about every underground/alternative publisher aims for the fest, and mailorder & distribution channels besides that appears to be quite minimal. In past when you published item, you could trust you may break even with selling at festival. Now when everybody does the same, I guess it doesn't work for anyone anymore. Most relevant alternative publishers has mentioned to me that every attempt to do anything with comics is hopeless. Financially that is. Media is drumming about huge success and internationally acknowledged artists, but everybody struggles in edge of being bankrupt, hah... Reminds a lot about noise!

For people interested in Finnish alternative comics, I think the best ways to get known them would be:



and this year:
http://www.huudahuuda.com/kauppa/?87,finnish-comics-annual-2012

HUGE comic anthologies. I don't have 2012 book, since I was slightly annoyed that 2011 book appeared to be most of all translated works what I had already seen in Finnish. Not exclusive stuff. In other hand, you'd expect this to be right way - to collect best works and translate them.. but then question remains why even sell it to Finns?
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« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2012, 10:43:25 PM »

I heard the ending was one way in the original issues of Yummy Fur and the first collection, and different in all subsequent collections. The ending in this book is the same as the Swedish edition of the book that came out in 98 or something. The new D&Q edition contains a new short comic that hasn't got anything to do with the Ed storyline but is apparently a "cover" of an old horror comic that inspired Brown.
Really wanna read Paying for it, I noticed the quite good & extensive comics library of Stockholm has a copy.

I found a copy of an old underground magazine called SATANS ANAL BULLWHIP, from 1991... crude and stupid redneck-punk stories, some parts are pretty good, some not so. There are some scans here, I can scan the whole thing if anyone would be interested.
http://kickinthefaceofaghost.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-testosterone-laden-tales-of-lonely.html
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Black_Angkar
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« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2012, 09:38:14 PM »

last time I wrote it seems I was farely drunk...

Ed the Happy Clown ios gret. I can't recall if there ever was a swedish album version
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Human Larvae
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« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2012, 11:43:31 AM »

I'm only into a certain kind of comic, that is the more abstract kind. I was in a the comic book store called "Grober Unfug" yesterday and saw version of Hansel and Gretel, wordless narration, which I would like to purchase soon




I am also fond of the works of Thomas Ott. Again wordless stories with underlying black humor, beautifully drawn with great detail. Well drawn is the wrong word. I think he explained works with double layered black&white paper and scratches off the black layer. Worth getting




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redswordwhiteplough
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« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2012, 08:25:21 PM »

Maaginen Matka by Sami Hynninen of Reverend Bizarre. Sex, satanism, violence, religion, death. Not sure how underground or rare this is, but I do own a copy.

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P O R O P U R I P I R U P E R I
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« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2012, 12:22:45 PM »

It's hard to tell which topic one should post in as there are two for comics... guess the other one could be used for Superman & Donald Duck as Mikko specified this wasn't for that. But lately I've been reading a lot of Grant Morrisons comics and he's certainly avantgarde (as in forerunner) in the field of hero/adventure comics, especially his excellent Superman and X-men storylines. I guess his own scripts (Invisibles, The Filth, Flex Mentallo) are generally more avantgarde/weird, but I like it when he's staying in the more traditional genre while really pushing the boundaries of what can be done with it. Also Frank Quitely is probably one of my favorite "traditional" comics artist ever.


I read Paying For It as well, I'm not overwhelmed but it was pretty good. In the beginning of the book it's pretty exciting, the discussions with friends, probing the world of prostitution etc. but after a while it becomes more counting out all the different girls he sees, "this one is attractive", "this one is ugly" etc. On one hand it's a strength that the book is so thorough and not overly dramatized, but at some times it gets a bit monotonous.
It's also strange how Brown really doesn't want to portray it as a sad/negative story, because I think it's hard not to take it like that... not regarding the issue of prostitution so much as the storytelling etc. He writes in the notes that he's unhappy with the title because it implies he's "paying for it" in a more metaphorical way (bearing the consequences of a mistake), but the monotony of the storytelling, the bleak minimalism of the art and the way he never depicts the faces of the girls (which he only seems to do to protect their identities) gives the whole story an undertone of melancholy for me. I like the style of the book but I feel like it conveys kind of the opposite message that Brown intends... reading the notes I also get the feeling that Brown is mildly autistic or something.
The design of the book is great, as always with Drawn & Quarterly, I totally prefer the thick book in A5 (?) size as opposed to a double size, half as thick book.
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tiny_tove
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ELETTRONICA RADICALE EDIZIONI


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« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2012, 12:36:22 PM »

I know and appreciate Mattotti.
He used to work with fanzines of my area back in the 70's.

Jerry Kramsky lives near my hometown, quite a character, pretty silent and grumpy, sax player and does a completely normal job.
Nice guy anyway.

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redswordwhiteplough
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« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2012, 07:02:01 PM »

Has anyone read John Hinckleton's 100 Months? It's fantastic.





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P O R O P U R I P I R U P E R I
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« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2014, 08:15:14 AM »

DADDYS GIRL by Debbie Drechser
Kind of "traditional" female comics. Arty clumsy drawing, reporting some problematic issues of their past. Have had this for years, but just was browsing shelves what short & easy to read in middle of more "challenging" big books. Abusive father. Failing relationships. Misery and sadness. Well, it's kind of well done and if you get something out of "female comics", then very recommended.



SIELUN KOOSTUMUS by Hannele Richert
I guess only available in Finnish. Finnish female art comics, collection of her short works from period of 10 years. I would guess published in various small press zines, gathered to hardcover book by Zum Teufel in 2010. Pretty good stuff, with same reservations as above.
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« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2014, 01:14:28 PM »

Sorry for the self-promotion but I guess it's more relevant to post about this here than in the New Releases section, since it's not a musical release;
I published a small zine recently, my first ever serious attempt at doing comics. It's got nothing to do with noise/industrial, but maybe it will appeal to some people here. It's a bit related to what I discussed with Black_Angkar up there a year and a half ago: not autobiography, not political rants, just fictional stories that (hopefully) carry a meaning in and of themselves.

5€ PPD in Europe, more info here:
http://bengthenrikleonard.tumblr.com/post/86201831949/henrik-soderstrom-souvenirs-of-kashmir-my
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