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FreakAnimalFinland
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« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2022, 10:13:37 AM »

New essay, related to some recent discussions on forum, but also more:

https://special-interests.net/main/noise-youth-culture/
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« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2022, 01:21:22 PM »

New essay, related to some recent discussions on forum, but also more:

https://special-interests.net/main/noise-youth-culture/


I also never understood the whole "your parents bought that Synth for you" angle. As if Noise would end up better, just because someone worked in the coal mines to buy it...
And I can also see plenty of interest in new material. When I started, I was in my mid twenties and some of the biggest supporters were guys in their 50s who had already been around in the 80ies. From my personal surroundings, I could name Pissoir Rouge and Sodomy from Beyond as artists who got recognition despite being new and young-ish. I have also witnessed such projects move better than supposed "safe seller" projects from back in the day
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« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2022, 04:28:55 PM »

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What is youth culture now, if the parents are no longer overly hostile towards even transgressive expressions? Or they may be far more experienced in all the oddities?

There is always something ! - I dont have kids but i see the kids in my neighborhood listening that Trap music made by some native idiots and i wonder what if my kid started playing this bullshit in my house. No matter how 'open-minded' a parent can be, i dont think anyone can tolerate stupidity.

Son, i dont mind, be a pervert, but dont be a stupid, hah.
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FreakAnimalFinland
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« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2022, 08:14:50 AM »

I recently was reading interview of one of the most successful rappers in Finland, who complained that his latest work was called drill. People don't get it, as supposedly he was first ever to make unique beat that combines both, drill and trap. I was quite amused by this groundbreaking innovation in 2022.

 
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« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2022, 05:59:41 PM »

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I do not rule out possibility of new generations finding the new ways of doing noise that is improving what we have had before. I do not see ”online noise” as progression at all. If new expressions of noise happen firmly hand in hand with climate of mainstream culture, I don’t see that as progress, but regress.

Old bitter man writes about youth culture.....
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Straight murkin' riddim blud, absolute vile gash
FreakAnimalFinland
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« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2022, 08:36:31 PM »

how it is bitter? Critique to "internet culture", is not for youth, but for internet culture.

Of course it is personal view, that in history of underground culture, pretty much all vital and new was born out of rejecting what was mainstream hegemony. In contemporary underground, there is fairly prevalent quality of not rejecting the of ways of mainstream, but even endorsement of it. Lets say you would have said some years ago that entire underground would be based in aiding business model of worlds biggest corporations and operating almost 1:1 in methods of mainstream culture. Formerly, this would have seen as joke. Now it is sort of reality one has to live with, but I would question can it be said progression (to good)? If so, why?

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« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2022, 04:49:33 PM »

Good write-up!
I agree that youth per se isn't crucial to any scene as a whole, but rather just that its participants remain active, and that zines/message boards/discussions in general don't let nostalgia outweigh the present.

However, for a small local scene, new young blood is important. Not that it has to be youngsters bringing some new spark to the circles, but that's just how it usually is. At least in Gothenburg we never see any new 40-somethings appear out of nowhere with innovative noise released. But once in a while some teen just shows up, with a tape he/she recorded in dad's garage, and wants to play shows. Without these younguns - at least where I'm active - our local thing would quickly have dwindled down to three  tired dads doing our same old thing, trading releases over a beer three times a year.

As for the rare relatively old farts, we have two in Gothenburg as well. One soon-to-be-60 and a retired eye doctor who comes to every gig, buys half the merch table and writes about the stuff online.
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FreakAnimalFinland
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« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2022, 06:11:01 PM »

One noise gig I attended this year, was organized at one bands parents garage. Therefore gig was private, since there is only a limited number of noise brutes one would want to have getting drunk in kind of middle class suburb's. It was good moment to say hello to father going walk out the dog, while in garage was artists doing soundcheck and probably 30 people hanging out and drinking on front lawn/street. Several people I would certainly consider the noise youth.

I have no idea of everybody's age, but when thinking pretty new Finn projects, lets say YANA/Amek-Maj, Aprapat, Mogao, etc... none of these guys come totally out of nowhere, but neither they have massive history of noise - at least in form of putting stuff out. Still several of these "new" guys are like family men with kids and stuff like that. Not youngsters. Or lets say Athropist, first releases I know of him date merely 4 years back, and I'd assume he is 40+? And guy who is the most active one to push new young names into live noise in Helsinki area.

They still bring new vital stuff into the table, creators, publishers, organizers, so for me it is firmly making point of what I was making. People that will ask other people come along, create something bigger, that I hope to be future. It is the beauty of noise in a way that there is (theoretically) very little scene uniformity, and at least over here, it seems that young organizers ask the veterans to join, the old ones invite newbies into releases and gigs and so on.
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« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2022, 08:36:05 PM »

I only had the chance to skim the article, so hopefully this is not repeating some of what was said: One of the things I wondered about when reading the article was the link between noise/industrial and what I guess could be called the cultural background and source material that surrounds what seems to be so much of it.  While knowledge of Throbbing Gristle's philosophy about taboo imagery and ideas or an awareness of the citation of contemporary geopolitical conflicts in the works of Genocide Organ are certainly not intrinsically neccessary in order to get a lot out of their music, I think it does provide a deeper appreciation for what they are doing.  In turn, I would think that developed personal interests would tend to lead artists to producing noise/industrial works that are more interesting.

I guess what I am saying is that it takes a lot of time to really cultivate personal interests in these cultural inspirations that can be found across noise music, and that that might explain some of why noise/industrial might not seem to be much of a "youth culture."  It takes a long time to read the books, watch the movies, hunt down the artworks, even listen to other's noise--as well as, perhaps, a degree of maturity to fully appreciate them.
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FreakAnimalFinland
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« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2022, 10:17:23 AM »

As addition, I am sure this video is posted before on SI board, but suitable example of good youth harsh noise. Deattan live at his high school back in 2016. I got some of his CDR's and perhaps just a notch more visible release in the scene was Hazarda Bruo Sonsistemo / Fricsvel / The Day Of The Antler / Deattán - Juurimusiikkia Teknologian Jättömailta -tape from 2019.

It would be curious to know how many young harsh noise artists are somehow visible noise markers, and it wouldn't be the top secret hobby that rest of school kids better not know about, hah...  After the set you got kids on the cue to cantine saying "WHAT THE FUCK?" "WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!?"

His studio works qualify well into level of international harsh noise, but it is no surprising very few know about artist since there is no releases on "scene labels" so to say. Check this:

https://youtu.be/Z4mr0bTjnlM
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« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2022, 10:20:24 PM »

…. Or lets say Athropist, first releases I know of him date merely 4 years back, and I'd assume he is 40+? And guy who is the most active one to push new young names into live noise in Helsinki area.


I was 40 when I first performed live as Atrophist. So no, I certainly don’t represent, or belong to any kind of youth movement.

Why such a late start? Well, many reasons. I lived in South America as a kid and teenager, well before the internet era. The radio played only Top 40, and the live music scene was mostly local folk music. Some of that stuff I liked and still do, but I was unwelcome in that scene as a white foreigner, who was perceived as rich and upper class. I’m neither of those, but that’s how I was seen, anyway. I understand it to some extent.

However, early death metal tapes were circulating. The Florida bands such as Morbid Angel, Deicide, Obituary etc. were especially popular among the hediondo (esp. ”stinky”, ”smelly”) crowd. So there were some attempts to achieve something similar. Very little gear, and even worse, hardly any motivated like-minded people to collaborate with. I knew there was a death metal band in the same town, but (and this will seem absurd to children of the internet era) I didn’t know them, had no common friends, didn’t know where they hung out or practiced. The one time they were due to play live at an outdoor event at the athletic field of  a local college, I was out of town on a school trip.

Came back to Finland later, armed service, university, even a half-assed attempt to become a productive, upstanding citizen of this country. Hah. Also, due to a medical issue I became unable to play any traditional instruments.

I had been aware of ”noise music” for a long time. Had a couple of Merzbow records, but regarded it all mostly as an interesting curiosity for a long time. However, live noise events changed that. I also realized that this could be something I could do. I don’t mean to suggest that noise is easy, just that the challenge is not in the dexterity of your hands and feet.

The final speak was attending a few shows at the legendary Kontti. After that I realized that I had to give it a go myself.

I started organizing shows for partly selfish reasons: so that I could play live myself. I’ve always thought that if you want something to happen, you have to do it yourself. Not that I’m trying to recreate the Kontti experience, of course not. That would be stupid, dishonest and —of course— doomed to fail.

To the noise youth, I say: organise more shows. I know it’s challenging, it’s the one thing that remains a challenge these days. Gear is plentiful and affordable, promotion is easy and free on social media, etc. Still, it’s not as hard as some seem to think, and nobody expects everything to be perfect. In fact, it’s more fun if things are a bit imperfect.
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« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2022, 12:59:55 AM »

Wow. Some story from Atrophist. Hi is the only and one guy I guess to do first YANA show. You remember? There was EoD, Oksennus, Atrophist & Satanoid, Rotat, Pain Nail and cancelled Halthan reasons what we later could heard. I was asking who's organising this evening...? And that's how things starts to roll. We had the only YANA cd released few months back.  When I told Sami(my partner in this crime called YANA) that I was speaking about some live he was...silence.

After that summer Atrophist really make an happening to happen. The place was unorthodox for loud noise, so I thought to do it a happening anyway. The later our lives followed that...circumstances could be anything. 

If I'm correct Janne has booked as four times. And it's without one, every live sets in Helsinki.  And That's half our live sets...so, really magnificent piece of all public YANA. In situation we live now there is only one more coming in Pori, Fin, next month.

Yeah I know this is middle age thing to do some abstract sound. And I'm totally fine whit it because in my opinion you have to crawling you way to find some gold. This is sound what is over every popular sound. This is Heroin for Lipton lickers.

I'm in my worst thought about case 10 years back. Some guy twisting pedals in some basement...where's raised fists,chaos and nude 18yo tits? Only in our head boy, sadly only there anymore. But!!! You can imagine all that and more, and do more recordings.

So..I don't mind. If you are twelve and do sound like "noise" so do it. My 4yo daughter do it it for fun. But there is one very important issue with that kind of sound!!! There is people who really can express their feelings best with those few signals. And that's some you have to take seriously and with appropriate.
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« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2022, 01:19:23 AM »

Maybe a big part of why people think that youth holds the key to revitalizing the scene of choice is that they believe that they're more likely to take risks and approach things from a new or unique perspective. It seems like the exact opposite is true, possibly due to the advent of nearly all youth culture moving online, which means that any chance taken and spread is open to criticism almost immediately and, kids being kids, any negative criticism is likely to get them to stop what they're doing and take the path of least resistance/greater acceptance from their chosen peer group.

Also agree with Herr Atrophist that a big part of keeping anything vital is to just get out there and do it yourself. That's been my personal experience with making music, from making the tapes/layouts/recordings on my own to spreading the final product to people whose work inspired or otherwise made an impression on me. Never hurts to ask.

Was just discussing with a couple of friends that, while it's almost impossible to create something from ZERO external influence these days that would still fall into the parameters of a certain genre, it's the creativity one employs in utilizing said influences that seems to be largely missing. A lack of passion as well, going back to what a previous poster mentioned about one's interests developing over time as one absorbs these various influences. Another thing to be blamed on social media fueled "like" culture and the short attention spans brought about by its use? There's very little that seems to be positive that's been brought about by the prevalence of it.
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« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2022, 02:34:03 PM »

I only had the chance to skim the article, so hopefully this is not repeating some of what was said: One of the things I wondered about when reading the article was the link between noise/industrial and what I guess could be called the cultural background and source material that surrounds what seems to be so much of it.  While knowledge of Throbbing Gristle's philosophy about taboo imagery and ideas or an awareness of the citation of contemporary geopolitical conflicts in the works of Genocide Organ are certainly not intrinsically neccessary in order to get a lot out of their music, I think it does provide a deeper appreciation for what they are doing.  In turn, I would think that developed personal interests would tend to lead artists to producing noise/industrial works that are more interesting.

I guess what I am saying is that it takes a lot of time to really cultivate personal interests in these cultural inspirations that can be found across noise music, and that that might explain some of why noise/industrial might not seem to be much of a "youth culture."  It takes a long time to read the books, watch the movies, hunt down the artworks, even listen to other's noise--as well as, perhaps, a degree of maturity to fully appreciate them.

Agreed in principle with the last paragraph. Big part of the industrial/noise scene is the aura of being the most edgy than all subcultures with deep references to visual arts, literature, philosophy, politics and controversial subject matter etc.
Things that require the person to be well versed in those topics which in itself is time consuming or could be the outcome of a longtime personal journey with engaging in this already 40+ years old scene.
Early TG and industrial was sort of counter-counter culture as the punk scene was the dominant subculture of the time which lacked the refinement and sophistication of the industrial and attracted more the youth of that era.

In theory the youth have more boldness and energy to push things further than their forefathers, protest and differentiate while the old are perceived as sclerotic and holding to nostalgia or preserving the tradition.
I think this analogy doesn't apply for the industrial/noise scene for the above reasons and because it's too diverse and complex.

The world/context has changed so much since the early days of TG that makes you even question if the industrial/noise scene can be relevant or have anything interesting to say about this new world. Could be a combination of both lack of youth in numbers(due to demographic collapse in the west) and then those few youths that exist having no interest in engaging or taking things further instead of adding one more formulaic noise tape in the canon (that nobody asked for)
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Phenol
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« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2022, 05:26:47 PM »



The world/context has changed so much since the early days of TG that makes you even question if the industrial/noise scene can be relevant or have anything interesting to say about this new world.
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I agree with most of your points, but feel like this should be opposed. There are tons topics - cultural, personal or geopolitical - that relate to today's world which can lend themselves well to the industrial/noise "treatment". An industrial/noise take on the anthropocene and the consequent mass extinction f.ex. could be awesome, right? I don't want to bring up a lot of potential good topis here, though, I'm just saying that the world is consistently fucked up and that all the ways in which it is fucked up can be succesfully brought into a noise/industrial context and given new meaning and significance. Whether it is done by young or "old" people is irrellevant. So I agree with many of you - youth is not super important for any underground culture to thrive or survive, what is important is some good output of music and some level of scene activity (live shows and printed fanzines sure, but also blogs, podcasts etc. that are part of "internet culture").
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