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Author Topic: WHITE CENTIPEDE NOISE PODCAST  (Read 105660 times)
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« Reply #420 on: February 06, 2023, 07:31:11 PM »

Out now - Stuart McCune of CYESS AFXZS on WCN Podcsast:

https://youtu.be/ia0vr3mNuEs
https://youtu.be/ia0vr3mNuEs
https://youtu.be/ia0vr3mNuEs

WCN EXT. - Patreon exclusive extension of the interview: Stuart talks about an early CYESS AFXZS gig that got particularly heated, his gear and technical process, as well as his TOP 5 noise releases of all time and recent releases.
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
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« Reply #421 on: February 07, 2023, 04:07:22 PM »

One of the best episodes. It is no surprise, I am fan of passionate and even stubborn noise manifestos, hah.. People who feel noise is *too important* to be just... well, what it is. That there must be conscious decision for advancing it.

There is countless pointers what I would have liked to ask him elaborate or consider.

As example, when having some leaning to "fine arts" as he says, and mentions that any art movement would have simply ceased to exist long long ago, and moved to something else. While noise keep churning seemingly same. I would think that is not flaw of noise, but STRENGTH of noise! Let's say you pile up bunch of former decades avantgarde artists and someone is there "I'll have exhibition of black square paintings" or "let's do installation of BLM signs". Just about everybody would sigh: come on man! Large number of examples could be given of something what was DONE. It carries no more value for further work. There is nothing more left to be done of certain things, but for next pure harsh noise thing, those are being done and enthusiastically listened, precisely because it has not lost its vitality. Not even after decades! There is so much more to be done. It is still reinventing itself, but not only in form of art movements that have pathological need of "new", that they can't see that the seek for "new" became pretty damn OLD.

Like the point of thinking conscious noise making as solution for progression of noise? What the hell!? I think it was already 15 years ago, when RAW SHEER LO-FI NOISE appreciation emerged precisely out of RESPONSE for that cerebral, composed, thought-out noise. I mean, you got all advanced, composed, intentional noise, refined sound, edited, "album worthy stuff"... and as response to that, you'd have people looking for emotion and feel, the obscurity and so on, which was meant not as backwards movement, but as vital progress opposed to cerebral noise.

In interview is advocated that it is good that author writing novel, could benefit from reading few books. I fully agree. Nevertheless, I am thinking that "new conscious and composed noise making" happened long ago and has been happening all these years. Like you think noise of 1985, and there ain't Purgist or Pain Jerk there. You think of 90's noise, and there ain't Umpio or Jaakko Vanhala there. You think of 2005 harsh noise, and most of those groups sound vastly different. It is not like you'd be listening Cherry Point, thinking "this is like Texas mid 90's!". Cut Up harsh noise is example how we have heard things now that could have not been made 20 years ago. I think a lot of new innovations done with cerebral noise has been less about technology, more about almost spiritual connection with sound?
I mean, I do smirk a little bit when conversation of one artist building "e-bow" comes in question and example of taking noise further, while I think most of people I know, already in 2005, when seeing someone pull out ebow, would be like "come on man!!!" Almost like how OLD time stretch became. One month it is like unheard thing, and next thing it's like autotune in pop music.


When talking of noise, that is more conscious, having direction, but then he does mention that he is not talking about repetition. Not talking about industrial, since industrial has been already done. It does make me think what it really is in industrial that is done? (One could perhaps remind of amusing remark, that back in the day, it used to be said, if you started a power violence band, it wasn't power violence. THE original power violence was something else. People staring power violence bands were already something else.) Perhaps same could be applied to industrial. The stuff I, or we may describe now as industrial, ain't the TG, SPK, stuff. It is simply small hint to lineage where it (partially) comes from. It may not be rehashing the same. It is barely return to anything. As when you look at the original industrial era, pretty much nobody admits they are part of it, nor feel they were in it. Most artists have musically or aesthetically almost nothing in common. But there is something, some underlying quality. Just like the talk about AMOK books. You can't really describe the world where guys who browse AMOK catalogue live, to guys of 2020.

Doing industrial noise in 2020 is absolutely different from originators, in same ways as artists of that era may have been different from each other. In that sense, if you make leap from TG to John Duncan and next leap, the 3rd name you mention could be.... H.Ö.H. Regardless does artists feel, intend or like it being mentioned together. If you'd put out older John Duncan tape out now, it would probably not sound "old"? It is most likely that 2015 power electronics CD would sound ancient next to that, hah.

H.Ö.H. is curious as example, since that sound could have been made in... late 60's? But compared to noise of 2020, is it regression or progression? It certainly sounds nothing like vast majority of noise of any decade.

I do find it interesting that CYESS AFXZS makes the remark about the danger of noise becoming like free jazz. New free jazz sounding the same, as the old free jazz. Despite all freedom there, the idea what constitutes as free jazz, is what it is. I can surely see that, but I also think I may come from different time and location. I never associated "noise = harsh noise". Noise where I come from, you could have Aube, Small Cruel Party and Macronympha - all together. Listening Aube now sound FUTURISTIC. Listening SCP now, and it sounds like you can't tell what decade it comes from, what country it comes from, always able to surprise. Do we qualify it as noise? Certainly not as harsh noise. Back in the day, noise seemed to be the stuff, what noise labels distributed. A lot of it may not be noisy enough now, to qualify as noise.

In other words, I absolutely liked CYESS AFXZS episode, but as opposed to moving forward - I would advocated moving in general. As he described that everything must evolved, everything must go forward, but in reality there barely is such rule. A lot of mutations dies, a lot of new ways lead nowhere. We may easily take step backwards, see what is strong and vital, what is worth preserving and recycling that will eventually reveal something. Just like the 2005 harsh noise era where many seemed to praise going back to mid 90's crunch, but actually making something entirely new.
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« Reply #422 on: February 07, 2023, 04:17:15 PM »

Will there be a Grunt WCN Podcast?
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« Reply #423 on: February 07, 2023, 04:41:14 PM »

Will there be a Grunt WCN Podcast?

I would say unlikely to be in any podcast (apart of my own,  of course).
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« Reply #424 on: February 07, 2023, 04:45:47 PM »

as addition, I know Oskar mentioned in 2023 he starts to "break the template", so to say, and this episode good example how well it works out. Picking up quite specific subject proceeding. Of course personal noise history and stuff like that gets covered, but structurally quite unlike any WCN episode before.
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« Reply #425 on: February 08, 2023, 03:42:03 PM »

Great episode!

Some of points thar Stuart made reminded me of Spenglers concept of "faustian" man or spirit within the western sphere of culture. Indeed the constant hunt for the new things in fine arts world fits into this concept and i don't necessarily agree with it. If i had to choose between quality or something that is percieved as new cool thing and "fresh", i'd go with the quality every time. I agree with Mikko about the idea of moving in general versus moving forward.

If my memory serves me correctly, there were also talk about certain sound sources and approaches that Stuart thought were from the different era. Idea that noise artists should seek and invent new sources, instruments and approaches and discard some others as being obsolete baffled me a bit. It's like saying that classic oil painting techniques are obsolete and those should be replaced with some bold new things. It's like hammer is been blamed for the shortcomings and uncreativity of the carpenter using that hammer.

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« Reply #426 on: February 08, 2023, 04:07:03 PM »

Great episode!
I disagree with alot of Stuart's examples and his take on the general state of things. Structure - obvious and less obvious/more hidden, intentional and unintentional - has always been there, hasn't it? I'd say it's something many noise artists with a background in rock, pop, metal, punk, whatever are even struggling to get away from with their noise, and not always successfully so. It's almost always there in some way - in how you time your shifts in timbre och temper, or how you begin or end your pieces.
What might be more rare is what Stuart does though; for example with his feedbacking shaker box referring to certain aspects or details in some painting or artwork which he revers and draws from. That adds alot to an already great cassette (Tapies) for me. As does his high ambitions in general.

Refreshing interview! Always nice to disagree wholeheartedly on so much. I think I like Cyess Afxzs even more now.
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« Reply #427 on: February 08, 2023, 06:21:24 PM »

One of the best episodes. It is no surprise, I am fan of passionate and even stubborn noise manifestos, hah.. People who feel noise is *too important* to be just... well, what it is. That there must be conscious decision for advancing it.

There is countless pointers what I would have liked to ask him elaborate or consider.

As example, when having some leaning to "fine arts" as he says, and mentions that any art movement would have simply ceased to exist long long ago, and moved to something else. While noise keep churning seemingly same. I would think that is not flaw of noise, but STRENGTH of noise! Let's say you pile up bunch of former decades avantgarde artists and someone is there "I'll have exhibition of black square paintings" or "let's do installation of BLM signs". Just about everybody would sigh: come on man! Large number of examples could be given of something what was DONE. It carries no more value for further work. There is nothing more left to be done of certain things, but for next pure harsh noise thing, those are being done and enthusiastically listened, precisely because it has not lost its vitality. Not even after decades! There is so much more to be done. It is still reinventing itself, but not only in form of art movements that have pathological need of "new", that they can't see that the seek for "new" became pretty damn OLD.

Like the point of thinking conscious noise making as solution for progression of noise? What the hell!? I think it was already 15 years ago, when RAW SHEER LO-FI NOISE appreciation emerged precisely out of RESPONSE for that cerebral, composed, thought-out noise. I mean, you got all advanced, composed, intentional noise, refined sound, edited, "album worthy stuff"... and as response to that, you'd have people looking for emotion and feel, the obscurity and so on, which was meant not as backwards movement, but as vital progress opposed to cerebral noise.

In interview is advocated that it is good that author writing novel, could benefit from reading few books. I fully agree. Nevertheless, I am thinking that "new conscious and composed noise making" happened long ago and has been happening all these years. Like you think noise of 1985, and there ain't Purgist or Pain Jerk there. You think of 90's noise, and there ain't Umpio or Jaakko Vanhala there. You think of 2005 harsh noise, and most of those groups sound vastly different. It is not like you'd be listening Cherry Point, thinking "this is like Texas mid 90's!". Cut Up harsh noise is example how we have heard things now that could have not been made 20 years ago. I think a lot of new innovations done with cerebral noise has been less about technology, more about almost spiritual connection with sound?
I mean, I do smirk a little bit when conversation of one artist building "e-bow" comes in question and example of taking noise further, while I think most of people I know, already in 2005, when seeing someone pull out ebow, would be like "come on man!!!" Almost like how OLD time stretch became. One month it is like unheard thing, and next thing it's like autotune in pop music.


When talking of noise, that is more conscious, having direction, but then he does mention that he is not talking about repetition. Not talking about industrial, since industrial has been already done. It does make me think what it really is in industrial that is done? (One could perhaps remind of amusing remark, that back in the day, it used to be said, if you started a power violence band, it wasn't power violence. THE original power violence was something else. People staring power violence bands were already something else.) Perhaps same could be applied to industrial. The stuff I, or we may describe now as industrial, ain't the TG, SPK, stuff. It is simply small hint to lineage where it (partially) comes from. It may not be rehashing the same. It is barely return to anything. As when you look at the original industrial era, pretty much nobody admits they are part of it, nor feel they were in it. Most artists have musically or aesthetically almost nothing in common. But there is something, some underlying quality. Just like the talk about AMOK books. You can't really describe the world where guys who browse AMOK catalogue live, to guys of 2020.

Doing industrial noise in 2020 is absolutely different from originators, in same ways as artists of that era may have been different from each other. In that sense, if you make leap from TG to John Duncan and next leap, the 3rd name you mention could be.... H.Ö.H. Regardless does artists feel, intend or like it being mentioned together. If you'd put out older John Duncan tape out now, it would probably not sound "old"? It is most likely that 2015 power electronics CD would sound ancient next to that, hah.

H.Ö.H. is curious as example, since that sound could have been made in... late 60's? But compared to noise of 2020, is it regression or progression? It certainly sounds nothing like vast majority of noise of any decade.

I do find it interesting that CYESS AFXZS makes the remark about the danger of noise becoming like free jazz. New free jazz sounding the same, as the old free jazz. Despite all freedom there, the idea what constitutes as free jazz, is what it is. I can surely see that, but I also think I may come from different time and location. I never associated "noise = harsh noise". Noise where I come from, you could have Aube, Small Cruel Party and Macronympha - all together. Listening Aube now sound FUTURISTIC. Listening SCP now, and it sounds like you can't tell what decade it comes from, what country it comes from, always able to surprise. Do we qualify it as noise? Certainly not as harsh noise. Back in the day, noise seemed to be the stuff, what noise labels distributed. A lot of it may not be noisy enough now, to qualify as noise.

In other words, I absolutely liked CYESS AFXZS episode, but as opposed to moving forward - I would advocated moving in general. As he described that everything must evolved, everything must go forward, but in reality there barely is such rule. A lot of mutations dies, a lot of new ways lead nowhere. We may easily take step backwards, see what is strong and vital, what is worth preserving and recycling that will eventually reveal something. Just like the 2005 harsh noise era where many seemed to praise going back to mid 90's crunch, but actually making something entirely new.

Hi

Firstly thank you for watching the interview and secondly massive thanks for giving it such thought. I appreciate all the support. I do feel that either a few points were genuinely lost in translation or in my accent or I simply didn't communicate my position clearly enough. In an effort to help clarify here's a few responses to your comments in the sequence you presented them.

My overall stance is not a need for "The New" or to simply move forward onto the next thing. I am not saying we need to echo other creative advancements either. My overall stance is that this has not been done and creation within the genre no matter how individually creative is simply an extended branch atop a beautiful tree when  in truth I would like us to see trees on other planets.

Cut up is not new in slightest, as you well know, cut up techniques existed since tape existed.

The point about Victoria Shen was that this week alone she developed a new sonic device using magnets - it was simply labelled a "magnetic e-bow". The point is that she constantly develops devices that approach how we can sonically interact in new ways. Smirking at the value of this is hopefully a misunderstanding rather than unwarranted condescension. She does not need my defence. Please check out her unique approach to inventing sound devices and hopefully you'll see the value I was referencing.

I stated that a repetitive beat when introduced over noise is commonly then labelled industrial. This is not a personal stance. I made no comments for or against modern Industrial music or about the genre in general.

I love the music of H.Ö.H.
I stated many times I was not talking about individuals or unique individual creative evolution. Many, many current artists are doing great new things. My stance is that these individual advancements mostly rest in a template that people who listen or make noise agree on. It is this framework within which we create that is stagnant for me not the creators.

The free jazz point is a point about hardware not creativity. I put forward the argument that perhaps the instruments limit free jazz moving beyond its heyday as an analogy that perhaps our "pedals" limit the spectrum of overall noise available to us.

The only constant in reality is that we constantly DO move forward. I do not wish this to be a larger statement about concepts such as non-linear time or universal expansion so if we just assume we are talking about a metaphorical position then even if you wanted to side-step that movement is still moving forward from a previous point. We could not analyse or utilize the past without viewing it from a forward point, a point of advancement from which to learn.

Overall the majority of your comments are directed specifically at me rather than the concepts expressed - to clarify - at very small things I mentioned in conversation rather than the larger overall ideas. So if you want to dance, let's dance. In your comments there is a disregard for many of the positives in the position I am trying out and you negate them with examples from at least fifteen years ago. Twice. These responses are the framework I referred to. I respect your knowledge and also admire your belief that noise is already developing because technically I have to be included in that development but I feel within your steadfastness the openness to confront a full comprehension of the larger concept is relegated.

I can't sign off though without restating how much I revere the past too and I also have the utmost respect for your label and back catalogue. I am particularly looking forward to hearing the new Umpio release.

Again thank you for giving my comments such consideration and for taking the time to write about them. I hope some of these points clarify the things I said in the "live" interview and that you accept this rebuttal in the good-natured spirit of debate in which it is intended.

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« Reply #428 on: February 08, 2023, 07:50:58 PM »

Great episode!
I disagree with alot of Stuart's examples and his take on the general state of things. Structure - obvious and less obvious/more hidden, intentional and unintentional - has always been there, hasn't it? I'd say it's something many noise artists with a background in rock, pop, metal, punk, whatever are even struggling to get away from with their noise, and not always successfully so. It's almost always there in some way - in how you time your shifts in timbre och temper, or how you begin or end your pieces.
What might be more rare is what Stuart does though; for example with his feedbacking shaker box referring to certain aspects or details in some painting or artwork which he revers and draws from. That adds alot to an already great cassette (Tapies) for me. As does his high ambitions in general.

Refreshing interview! Always nice to disagree wholeheartedly on so much. I think I like Cyess Afxzs even more now.

Thank you for finding a bit coherence - it all was off the bat. Thanks too for getting Tàpies. I'm glad the comments about it enhance it a little. I really appreciate your comments about the interview in general. If you watched the Patreon section you may already know that there are two quite different CDs due out this first quarter that were recorded last year. I look forward to hearing what you think of them.
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« Reply #429 on: February 08, 2023, 08:51:39 PM »

...it all was off the bat...
I don't think this can be ignored or forgotten and reminded of enough.  We all know it is a conversation, but when heavy and complex topics are at play, even if we've thought about them and talked about them, the moment and context is new in that moment.  Shooting the shit.  Off the cuff.  Yet, we can't wait to dissect it, argue it, contrary it, etc.  It's natural and what it's there for, but still, it's inherently flawed and messy and puts everyone in a shit position.  Add in social dynamics and personality conflicts...and what a further mess it all begs.  Not to single out Koufar, but I bet he gets into arguments over his personality just as often as over his actual ideas.  People don't even hear his ideas because their caveman self takes an adversarial position, and then he's likely arguing points that he's either not thought through, didn't word well or precisely, and that really, he doesn't even actually care about that much.  Active listening doesn't always serve us well.

Interviews are interesting things.  If the interviewee has too much time to think about something, they often come off as pretentious, calculated, unnatural, etc.  I've certainly been guilty of that.  Off the cuff and casual...arguments are created out of misunderstanding or out of nothing.  A lot of room and likeliness for error.  Passive listening serves well.
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« Reply #430 on: February 08, 2023, 09:28:58 PM »

My overall stance is not a need for "The New" or to simply move forward onto the next thing. I am not saying we need to echo other creative advancements either. My overall stance is that this has not been done and creation within the genre no matter how individually creative is simply an extended branch atop a beautiful tree when  in truth I would like us to see trees on other planets.

This may be the similar dilemma that has been discussed in wide variety of topics. Including, what is missing in current noise. If something truly is missing, it might be missing in other ways. Like, if the tree is on other planet, and it ain't tree like we know trees to be... result can be, without using metaphora: Noise that is not noise we know, we might not perceive as noise at all. And it is possible it isn't. This appears to happen a lot, when someone talks about great noise recording, and next guy is "ah, its not noise, this is glitch wave drone".
This would appear as natural process. We could not accept everything to be noise. Or whatever to be noise - if it is not. Genre itself builds the what it contains. I feel personally, that it used to be more flexible, but I also feel that it is becoming more flexible again?

I love the music of H.Ö.H.
I stated many times I was not talking about individuals or unique individual creative evolution. Many, many current artists are doing great new things. My stance is that these individual advancements mostly rest in a template that people who listen or make noise agree on. It is this framework within which we create that is stagnant for me not the creators.

This actually clarifies it the best. It connects to the earlier talk, mentioning when going to gigs back in the day, and seeing "just music". Coil, Whitehouse etc mentioned, and everybody vastly different and excitement of getting something that doesn't follow the pre-set framework.

Well, I would guess this is simply result of progress. Result of proceeding into new things leads that behind us is now the history of artform. Something what early protagonist and those involved didn't have. If we look into birth of expression, that has almost no history. And combine it with virgin experience. I don't think this this is thing that can be replicated on individual level.
Like myself hearing first time Incapacitants. I can't really describe the feeling, nor I can return to it, nor there is anything that could produce the same feeling of having no idea what the hell is happening, and what is this. I don't think it is possible. Like I can't fuck for the first time again.

Noise has now history as genre. It greatly benefits of it, but it also sets framework what constitutes "Noise" as we know it. If something utterly different emerges, it may be something else than what is "noise". Many simply conclude term itself ain't that relevant. We can easily discuss benefits of limitless experimental sound. This can lead to conclusion that one can let go the noise, and move without restrictions of terms.

I don't need to let go, since I feel that there is so much positive angles in advancement and new found within what we know as noise - and I can be certain for a lot of guys it is even better! When letting go the individual level, one can acknowledge that many other guys have exact same virgin experience ahead and finding amazing new noise without predetermined set of mind. For them, I would think a lot of things now will appear to them exactly like tree of alien planet. It is something they never knew even existed or could have imagined.

All that said, to make noise, that is not noise we know - of course I appreciate such urge!
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« Reply #431 on: February 08, 2023, 10:29:34 PM »

Thank you. That's all exactly what I was trying to get across. It's great to be able to discuss this. I really appreciate you being open minded with my slightly salty reply too. Affirms my belief that we hear noise in a similar and even biological way. The possibilities of where that takes us can be pushed and pulled and distorted beautifully beyond measure. Being open to new elements or approaches is vital to its growth.
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« Reply #432 on: February 09, 2023, 12:13:58 PM »

The limits of what's accepted as noise IMO are STILL largely defined by labels. a "noise label" so to speak, if branches out to include releases that have aesthetic, thematic or hard to define but recognizable sonic qualities that make it noise while not abiding to genre norms has the power to either widen or narrow down established genre definitions. perhaps not immediately, but gradually. I think right now people running labels have a sort of "everything goes" mentality as long as it hits the previously mentioned, vague qualifiers. i'm not sure how it's been in the past, maybe 80s and 90s were free times when everything was cool as long as it was good? did the hard genre limits for noise and adjacend music become more defined in the 2000's, perhaps due to internet and online databases? perhaps
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« Reply #433 on: February 09, 2023, 07:17:36 PM »

...it all was off the bat...
Not to single out Koufar, but I bet he gets into arguments over his personality just as often as over his actual ideas.  People don't even hear his ideas because their caveman self takes an adversarial position, and then he's likely arguing points that he's either not thought through, didn't word well or precisely, and that really, he doesn't even actually care about that much.

All very, VERY real. No singling out here, very much stating the facts and the truth.
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« Reply #434 on: February 13, 2023, 03:17:37 PM »

Out now ahead of schedule!

Soddy of TWO ASSISTANT DEPUTY MINISTERS on WCN Podcast!

https://youtu.be/rgHxZrRbUnk
https://youtu.be/rgHxZrRbUnk
https://youtu.be/rgHxZrRbUnk

As an extra special bonus, Soddy sent me some DV tapes of spectacular live footage from his legendary Fuck My Ass concert series, featuring performances by Endo + T.A.D.M., Kosakai + Hasegawa, and The Tokyo Othodox Noise Choir, just to name a few. Digitized by WCN and available for the first time ever at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise
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