Special Interest
March 05, 2021, 02:24:32 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Login Register  

Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: Gatekeepers act as if they still matter  (Read 1999 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
JLIAT
user
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 235



« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2020, 01:16:20 PM »



As JLIAT said above the issue is complex and don't want to make this a long drawn philosophical argument if gatekeepers should exist or not.


Does sending a copy of your release to be reviewed by magazines/online magazines who deal with "difficult" music matter anymore?

They do exist in the form of online reviews etc.  But I also think they act in a positive way in that they present an orthodoxy which in turn creates a re-action. As a famous 'philosophical'  event, "Forget Foucault by Jean Baudrillard" was a piece sent by Baudrillard to a magazine edited by Foucault - who ignored it and didn't publish.. that made Baudrillard instantly famous!

There was also the famous spat between GPO and Bennett... 

Maybe without 'gatekeepers' - before cassettes - economic - (the cost of releasing a Vinyl) as you point out rather than creativity being stifled it's swamped in the shear volume of material, AKA Noise. 




Logged
slagfrenzy tapes
Guest
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2020, 01:32:10 PM »

You paid to make this release, yes?
You sent it to a person /zine? Yes?

Sometimes the answer is no.

I shit you not.

I love concrete, but with a donna..
Logged
Thermophile
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 11


« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2020, 02:04:48 PM »

You paid to make this release, yes?
You sent it to a person /zine? Yes?

Sometimes the answer is no.

I shit you not.

I love concrete, but with a donna..

That's what we are discussing in this thread.

It barely matters if you send or where you send or what was the answer.

People who still hold such delusions (either those who act as gatekeepers or those who think someone holds the key that will make them famous or sell records)
are clueless to what have happened to the world the last 20 years or so and how old ways of conduct have changed or barely matter anymore.
Logged
JLIAT
user
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 235



« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2020, 02:24:30 PM »


That's what we are discussing in this thread.

It barely matters if you send or where you send or what was the answer.

People who still hold such delusions (either those who act as gatekeepers or those who think someone holds the key that will make them famous or sell records)
are clueless to what have happened to the world the last 20 years or so and how old ways of conduct have changed or barely matter anymore.


Depends. I've sent numerous free review copies out and had good/bad reviews. Also ads in The Wire and elsewhere. This did not result in any significant sales, but I didnt expect any. Promotion is costly, there are notable examples in very popular releases. I heard a story last night about Thelonious Monk who was signed to Columbia, left after a few releases owing them! $16,000.00. The Industry is full of crooks, Rough Trade owe me £2,000.00 – Dutch East India more. There certainly are gatekeepers, and networks of promotion.

Quote
 Eventually a new paradigm is formed, which gains its own new followers. For Kuhn, this stage entails both resistance to the new paradigm, and reasons for why individual scientists adopt it. According to Max Planck, "a new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."

This is obviously more true in the arts where there is even less of any objective criteria.

On the one hand its naïve to expect anyone taking an interest but equally to simply give up.
Logged
slagfrenzy tapes
Guest
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2020, 03:16:47 AM »

You paid to make this release, yes?
You sent it to a person /zine? Yes?

Sometimes the answer is no.

I shit you not.

I love concrete, but with a donna..

That's what we are discussing in this thread.

It barely matters if you send or where you send or what was the answer.

People who still hold such delusions (either those who act as gatekeepers or those who think someone holds the key that will make them famous or sell records)
are clueless to what have happened to the world the last 20 years or so and how old ways of conduct have changed or barely matter anymore.


Your answer doesn't make sense, I went back and reread every post in this topic, and are really confused about what you are asking.

Do you want to tell gatekeepers they don't have their own opinions?

That the gatekeepers are not allowed to express these opinions in public?

Im getting the feeling someone has received your promotional copy of yr release and just kept it, didn't promote it, just kept it. Who was it that damaged you life, name and shame might work better....
Logged
Thermophile
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 11


« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2020, 12:09:31 PM »

You paid to make this release, yes?
You sent it to a person /zine? Yes?

Sometimes the answer is no.

I shit you not.

I love concrete, but with a donna..

That's what we are discussing in this thread.

It barely matters if you send or where you send or what was the answer.

People who still hold such delusions (either those who act as gatekeepers or those who think someone holds the key that will make them famous or sell records)
are clueless to what have happened to the world the last 20 years or so and how old ways of conduct have changed or barely matter anymore.


Your answer doesn't make sense, I went back and reread every post in this topic, and are really confused about what you are asking.

Do you want to tell gatekeepers they don't have their own opinions?

That the gatekeepers are not allowed to express these opinions in public?

Im getting the feeling someone has received your promotional copy of yr release and just kept it, didn't promote it, just kept it. Who was it that damaged you life, name and shame might work better....


I haven't sent a single promo copy anywhere yet.

I think you are just salty because I called people with your mindset delusional.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 12:11:48 PM by Thermophile » Logged
FreakAnimalFinland
MODERATOR
Administrator
Overkill user
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 4413



WWW
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2020, 01:50:54 PM »


People who still hold such delusions (either those who act as gatekeepers or those who think someone holds the key that will make them famous or sell records)
are clueless to what have happened to the world the last 20 years or so and how old ways of conduct have changed or barely matter anymore.

I think the basic principles of underground culture are as valid as they always were. Like I mentioned before, I do not think there are "gatekeepers" per se. Calling people who write, publish, distributors, are most of all enables. Most of noise guys do it on financial loss. They see something they like, and want to tell people about it or push it to other peoples hands. That is how underground traditionally functions. They are not "key to success". It is just part of the process how word gets around.

In short: Someone did so great stuff, that others can't shut up about it. And more people get interested.

People learn quickly who does good recommendations. Who tells everything is awesome. Who is biased to certain group of people or aesthetic. As it was expressed before, I recall by you, was the insane flood of material that leads most people into problem of abundance. While in past, you may have trusted great review to be why you placed order of item.

Now you may have option to pre-view (or just listen) release from artists own bandcamp for example. But what did take you there? I can not believe people would just randomly click links like mindless consumers, hoarding everything and anything. Still now, pretty much everybody I know, check out thing based on becoming interested in it. How you become interested in something, first of all you'd need to find or hear about it. Often can be just random discoveries, but a lot of it is, someone saying, somewhere, "did you hear this? fucking brilliant!".  On level of noise underground, every "journalist", every "distro", every "gig organizer" is basically just that guy who is enthusiastic about it, to communicate and "promote" it to others. You only hear word "gatekeeper" when shitty band needs excuse why nobody listens or buys their stuff, and thinks there exists some magical character who can change that by writing few lines in Wire magazine or such...

I personally feel, enthusiastic people/"enablers" are crucial, and purpose of even forum such is SI - is to advocate such behavior. People picking up best things they heard and were impressed and recommend others to check out. Or put out release of such artist. Or grab some copies of their stuff to distro. Without such behavior, you simply do not discover it by yourself from such a vast mass of things, that happens globally.

One can check out Playlist topic for example. Tell what you hear, and why it ruled. That release may get few buyers or people checking out if there is link to listen it. It may get labels to send invitations to make next tape on their label, etc.
Logged

E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net
vomitgore
Heavy user
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 321


« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2020, 11:10:09 AM »

I wouldn't even know where to send copies of releases for reviews, to be honest. I like Musique Machine and I guess Heathen Harvest was important (down now?), but apart from that I am only aware of the print zines and the handful of fans who write reviews here or on Facebook. Apart from that, the only "gatekeepers" I could imagine are either established artists or labels who will turn down an artist's applications for a release or split, but that's just a lost chance at best
Logged

JLIAT
user
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 235



« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2020, 11:16:54 AM »

I wouldn't even know where to send copies of releases for reviews, to be honest. I like Musique Machine and I guess Heathen Harvest was important (down now?), but apart from that I am only aware of the print zines and the handful of fans who write reviews here or on Facebook. Apart from that, the only "gatekeepers" I could imagine are either established artists or labels who will turn down an artist's applications for a release or split, but that's just a lost chance at best

Vital Weekly will review physical releases.

Logged
Thermophile
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 11


« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2020, 12:56:20 PM »

I wouldn't even know where to send copies of releases for reviews, to be honest. I like Musique Machine and I guess Heathen Harvest was important (down now?), but apart from that I am only aware of the print zines and the handful of fans who write reviews here or on Facebook. Apart from that, the only "gatekeepers" I could imagine are either established artists or labels who will turn down an artist's applications for a release or split, but that's just a lost chance at best

Vital Weekly will review physical releases.



also Sound Projector magazine which only publishes annually.

Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.173 seconds with 20 queries.