COVID-19

Started by tiny_tove, March 10, 2020, 03:19:45 PM

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Stipsi

#120
Quote from: tiny_tove on March 26, 2020, 07:07:51 PM
Italy gives contradictive signals and don't do the necessary checks.

Crazy fake news add background noise. More dead every day, a couple of nurses killed themselves. It is getting totally out of control.

Suicide and depression is the next big problem related to covid.
Highly increment of cases is just behind the corner
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tiny_tove

Quote from: Stipsi on March 27, 2020, 11:37:15 AM
Quote from: tiny_tove on March 26, 2020, 07:07:51 PM
Italy gives contradictive signals and don't do the necessary checks.

Crazy fake news add background noise. More dead every day, a couple of nurses killed themselves. It is getting totally out of control.

Suicide and depression is the next big problem related to covid.
Highly increment of cases is just behind the corner


PTSD nation. Not kidding.
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holy ghost

Congrats on becoming the new epicentre!!

WhiteWarlock

Quote from: holy ghost on March 29, 2020, 10:51:21 PM
Congrats on becoming the new epicentre!!
That happens when you actually start testing way more than any other country.
Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured?
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Bloated Slutbag

Quote from: Zeno Marx on March 29, 2020, 07:41:45 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/technology/coronavirus-fauci-trump-conspiracy-target.html?searchResultPosition=1

More fake news from the failing New York Times.


More seriously though. Most of the stuff I've read, which admittedly has to the best of my knowledge not been sourced from Facebook or Twitter, has suggested that for the most part Fauci's opinions are valued by most ends of the political spectrum. Though presumably less by the apparent Far Right. Perhaps a video getting retweeted 1500 times is newsworthy, I couldn't say.
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host body

Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on March 30, 2020, 05:02:26 PM
Quote from: Zeno Marx on March 29, 2020, 07:41:45 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/technology/coronavirus-fauci-trump-conspiracy-target.html?searchResultPosition=1

More fake news from the failing New York Times.


More seriously though. Most of the stuff I've read, which admittedly has to the best of my knowledge not been sourced from Facebook or Twitter, has suggested that for the most part Fauci's opinions are valued by most ends of the political spectrum. Though presumably less by the apparent Far Right. Perhaps a video getting retweeted 1500 times is newsworthy, I couldn't say.

honestly "the far right", anti-vaxxers and other groups who have apparently taken being wrong on the internet their main mission in life deserve to catch corona and i hope they try to tough it out without any help, as their worldview says they should.

PuddysJacket

Quote from: host body on March 30, 2020, 05:52:51 PM
Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on March 30, 2020, 05:02:26 PM
Quote from: Zeno Marx on March 29, 2020, 07:41:45 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/technology/coronavirus-fauci-trump-conspiracy-target.html?searchResultPosition=1

More fake news from the failing New York Times.


More seriously though. Most of the stuff I've read, which admittedly has to the best of my knowledge not been sourced from Facebook or Twitter, has suggested that for the most part Fauci's opinions are valued by most ends of the political spectrum. Though presumably less by the apparent Far Right. Perhaps a video getting retweeted 1500 times is newsworthy, I couldn't say.

honestly "the far right", anti-vaxxers and other groups who have apparently taken being wrong on the internet their main mission in life deserve to catch corona and i hope they try to tough it out without any help, as their worldview says they should.


How tolerant and reasonable of you.

ekastaka

Quote from: host body on March 30, 2020, 05:52:51 PM
Quote from: Bloated Slutbag on March 30, 2020, 05:02:26 PM
Quote from: Zeno Marx on March 29, 2020, 07:41:45 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/technology/coronavirus-fauci-trump-conspiracy-target.html?searchResultPosition=1

More fake news from the failing New York Times.


More seriously though. Most of the stuff I've read, which admittedly has to the best of my knowledge not been sourced from Facebook or Twitter, has suggested that for the most part Fauci's opinions are valued by most ends of the political spectrum. Though presumably less by the apparent Far Right. Perhaps a video getting retweeted 1500 times is newsworthy, I couldn't say.

honestly "the far right", anti-vaxxers and other groups who have apparently taken being wrong on the internet their main mission in life deserve to catch corona and i hope they try to tough it out without any help, as their worldview says they should.

Pretty inaccurate take from the NYT (surprise). For one, most the far-right has abandoned Trump or have become critical of him, so they wouldn't be running cover for a conspiracy involving Fauci. The idea that the media continues to push of Trump being this sort of threatening quasi-fascist is quite laughable, he has become a pretty stale and controlled version of campaign Trump. This talk of usurpation would come from irrelevant boomer MAGApedes. Modern journalism is a pyramid scheme. You find a couple tweets from QAnon and run with a story to paint the entire right wing as looney. Its a non-story.

Coronavirus has made for pretty amusing political discourse, at least from my point of view. Liberals/leftist jumped on the opportunity, practically praying for doom in hopes that it would hurt Trump. Yet, his approval ratings are higher than ever now. It's funny because the basis of their premise that the scale in the US of the pandemic could have been preventable with the right action is true. Its just that the action necessary to lessen the impact are things they are completely against. The pandemic is a direct result of rootless globalism where borders cease to matter. Countries like China are treated like real players instead of third world shit holes. If our country wasn't looted of its manufacturing power, we wouldn't have to rely so much on bat soup consuming countries. In the current state of affairs, we let just anyone waltz into our country. Had the borders been completely closed earlier we wouldn't be seeing these numbers. In fact as of a week ago my friend was telling me that in France, Macron still hasn't shut down the borders stating that the virus has no nationality. Fair enough, but the carriers of the virus do. All the points about Medicare For All are rendered mute once you hit a certain infection rate. Medicare or not, the healthcare system will be overloaded either way and thats where you see most deaths occur.

Yrjö-Koskinen

This is absolutely magical. In Sweden, there is a massive outpouring of hate for a man called Anders Tegnell, who as Statsepidemiolog (state epidemiologist) is responsible for Sweden's COVID-19 policy. The attitude is the same as that of the quoted "far-rightists" in the article quoted above, and established Swedish media is making the exact same argument as the New York Times: people should trust the experts, the Far Right is trying to undermine science, etc. The hilarious part is that Tegnell's line, held with autistic and scientific precision through this whole affair, has been literally the same as Trump's original one (even slightly laxer): this is sort of like a flu, the economy must be weighed against the actual danger of the virus (which is seen as limited), no too radical action should be taken, etc.

This bizarre situation has, once again hilariously, led to Swedish New York Times equivalent Dagens Nyheter publishing very excited, angry criticism of the government's policies - which in turn caused other parts of Swedish media to accuse Dagens Nyheter of populism and an unscientific attitude. This becomes even more amusing since Dagens Nyheter has literally the same perspective as most Swedish "Far Right" online publications - i.e. that the Swedish government and its experts don't know what they are doing and are playing an extremely dangerous game by not responding forcefully enough to the novel Corona virus.

Obviously, this is simply a question of who holds power (Dagens Nyheter is simply riffing off of NYT). Even so, it is really, really funny that if COVID-19 would prove less dangerous than at first assumed, then the "winners" of the controversy would be Trump, Bolsonaro, the Swedish Left-Wing government and basically no-one else (or perhaps Holland is still in the chill-out camp). If it is extremely dangerous, and lax policies lead to disaster (as seems at least very possible, considering the development in Sweden the past few days), then the government of Sweden and probably also Bolsonaro are pretty much fucked (Trump may pull through, given the fact that he's changed his stance so radically - still, it may cost him reelection). The winning side will then consist of the New York Times, the American Left wing twitterati, most of the European Far Right, and a large number of governments across the world - democratic or not.

As a side note, the "trust the experts" meme seems retarded if you don't have a fairly united global expertise. Which we really, really don't on the question of COVID-19. In Sweden, the expert opinion is that all governments that close schools or borders do so because of populist pressure, and that the damage to the economy from shutting down too much is way worse than any consequence of COVID-19. In the US, this exact opinion is apparently seen as "far right".
"Alkoholi ei ratkaise ongelmia, mutta eipä kyllä vittu maitokaan"

Ahvenanmaalla Puhutaan Suomea

ekastaka

#132
Quote from: Yrjö-Koskinen on April 03, 2020, 10:22:11 PM
As a side note, the "trust the experts" meme seems retarded if you don't have a fairly united global expertise. Which we really, really don't on the question of COVID-19. In Sweden, the expert opinion is that all governments that close schools or borders do so because of populist pressure, and that the damage to the economy from shutting down too much is way worse than any consequence of COVID-19. In the US, this exact opinion is apparently seen as "far right".

Nail on the head, "Trust the experts" is a retarded meme. Who are the experts? The WHO, which downplayed the virus at first due to the sway China has over them. The media? When stories of the virus first hit, the mainstream media ran articles telling everyone not to worry - the real virus is racism and the flu kills millions every year. People on Twitter have compiled videos of NYC officials in February telling everyone to go about their normal lives and attend the crowded Lunar New Year celebrations, reassuring the public that an outbreak would never happen. Look at them now. World experts are politicized and bought off like many other factors of society. The idea that lab coats are these moral beings that don't bow to greed and politics is ridiculous.

American political discourse lacks the nuance to even properly engage with ideas. The left/right divide here is fake and purposely controlled in order to avoid issues of culture, the approved topic of debate is superficial economic policy. The media labelling people like Bill Mitchell and Charlie Kirk "far right" is done as to seal off legitimate dissident ideas away from debate.

Yrjö-Koskinen

Quote from: sunandsteel on April 03, 2020, 11:45:33 PM
American political discourse lacks the nuance to even properly engage with ideas. The left/right divide here is fake and purposely controlled in order to avoid issues of culture, the approved topic of debate is superficial economic policy. The media labelling people like Bill Mitchell and Charlie Kirk "far right" is done as to seal off legitimate dissident ideas away from debate.

Unfortunately, all we end up with is despair when it comes to COVID-19 coverage. In the case of mongoloid wars in the Middle East, uncontrolled immigration to Europe from the same Middle East or any number of other issues, it is usually comparatively simple to decide that/whether "established media" is lying on behalf of any given set of interest groups. This is not at all the case here (unless George Soros is SHORTING EVERYTHING), and without the usual interest groups or ideologies involved, we're basically stuck with reality. Which isn't available at this time, due to politicization and the slow nature of actual scientific research.

Perhaps we could all, left and right, just unite around the idea that Charlie Kirk is a dick, and take it from there.
"Alkoholi ei ratkaise ongelmia, mutta eipä kyllä vittu maitokaan"

Ahvenanmaalla Puhutaan Suomea

Theodore

- If they dont find a cure soon, they will not be able to continue all these restrictions for much longer than some months more -maybe- , and then ... all this mess, for what ?

- People who die, the vast majority of them, is old with very bad health already. They would die in 1-5 years anyway, it was matter of time, till a bad flu or anything hit them with deadly outcome. When all this ends, the following years number of deaths will be lower than before the crisis. People who would normaly be included in those future statistics are dying now, altogether. That goes for countries that their health system hasnt collapsed like Italy's .

- At the end, we have 2 gov of different countries, let's say 10 million people each. One has 1000-1500 deaths and GDP fell by 6% , the other has 200 deaths and GDP fell by 20% . Who went better ? Any serious gov would choose the first option. But they cant know for sure how many deaths will be, and if the health system collapses. So they play safe, and follow what most do, and what doctors and scientists advice. But a doctor's duty is to save even a single life if possible, a gov's duty is to weight all the decisions ...

- I have seen videos with doctors / nurses, from inside the hospitals, dancing, clapping their hands for YouTube likes, coming only from China -at the very beginning- , Iran, Italy, Spain. Yesterday i saw from New York. Hm, be prepared there ! I see coffins comin , a lot ! Seriously, think you have recently lost a family member in that hospital and you see those doctors / nurses dancing for YouTube ! Dont know if that's a bad sign of a disaster coming or a symptom of an already collapsed system.
"ἀθάνατοι θνητοί, θνητοὶ ἀθάνατοι, ζῶντες τὸν ἐκείνων θάνατον, τὸν δὲ ἐκείνων βίον τεθνεῶτες"