Noise gentrification?

Started by FreakAnimalFinland, October 05, 2019, 01:23:32 PM

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FreakAnimalFinland

Quote from: W.K. on October 08, 2019, 01:18:48 AM
Why care so much about what other people are or do?

Perhaps when it comes clear that people are not just making their own "careers", but experiencing noise others are making?
And by the effect of what you could call gentrification (by the definition explained in the Harsh Truths comedy bit, not literal gentrification), climate change, pussification, etc...   you and everybody else may end up hearing lesser good things and not even knowing about the good stuff.

How?

Quote from: holy ghost on October 07, 2019, 01:22:12 AM
Speaking specifically about the local scene there's a lot of crossover between noise/experimental and the LGBTQ+ community and other groups who (typically) share a similar political outlook - I wouldn't expect that they'd just go "oh shit I love this. But.... Whitehouse! Well I guess I better know my place and just be quiet". I find that our scene has pretty much adopted a policy of "no hate/no bullshit"

I recall last year one journalist got super excited about new Cloama album. Rare case of someone actually contacting both artists and label, asking if there could be review done for high profile experimental magazine. Well, I knew how it would play out, so okay, here's the disc do what you please. Expecting nothing. Certainly not review to appear on such magazine. She was writing enthusiast praise and had piece done, until suddenly chief editor pulls out review from lay-out concluding that there seemed to be some "problematic history" and they can not introduce such music to their readers. She was baffled, what is wrong with Cloama since chief did not tell. Contacted me about it. I told her nothing is wrong with it. Just bands he might have played with during last 20 years, or labels he has released on for 20 years. Nothing else.

I don't need and often do not want attention from "big press", yet for sake of something like Cloama, who is fucking brilliant, and rarely gets the exposure it would deserve, gets this type of treatment, and most likely replaced by inferior music just done by person who is suitable for readers and belong to correct political clique. It paints quite ugly picture of integrity of experimental music magazine?

You can look how thing was/is in USA online metal "press". There isn't so shitty and pointless bedroom metal project or silly hipster-gaze, what would have not been praised as best thing happening right now. And just about anyone I know, watches this spectacle little amused and little annoyed. Concluding that lucky us, who are not those who ended up having these people as main sources of recommending good music to check out!

Most people who I know, have concluded that they have almost no idea what is happening in music/noise. Due various reasons which may too vast to deal here. One may selfishly conclude that fuck everybody, it's enough if I find bands I like and I make music I like. Fortunately underground network was not and is not all about that. Guys who run labels, publish 'zines, put out "podcasts", are not solely in business of me me me. There is certain curiosity what often did happen, and what could happen, when artform blossomed and something emerged that inspired and vitalized things for decades. Never, absolutely never, happened due one guy that just cared what he did himself.
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slagfrenzy tapes

You might have nailed this as well. Yr term  revelatory 

I can't add to that. I spend time thinking about it, but it's a lost think...I'd like to add to it but.

slagfrenzy tapes

Quote from: Lazrs3 on October 06, 2019, 08:32:30 PM
Quote from: moozz on October 06, 2019, 01:48:39 PM
Quote from: Lazrs3 on October 06, 2019, 12:25:58 PM
Ahem, I am a bit guilty there, I remember when at College doing Art, in 1997 Frieze Art Magazine in the UK did a feature on Japanese Noise and there was a free 3"CD with Massona, Merzbow and (I think) Pain Jerk.

The third artist on that 3"CD is MC Hellshit & DJ Carhouse (Yamatsuka Eye on voice and Otomo Yoshihide on turntables).

Thanks, I wasn't being lazy, I would have checked, but somehow managed to lose it years ago. This in my defence was my first 3" CD. I am big on the Inner Demons label who only do 3"CDRs and I have not lost any of them, so decades later I have learned better 3"CD care.

Not that you care, but I'm happy you're more careful of these 20 mins pieces of music. I shit you not.

GEWALTMONOPOL

#48
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on October 08, 2019, 09:02:52 AMI recall last year one journalist got super excited about new Cloama album...

It's the same old story. I gave up on so called mainstream music media early in Unrest's existence. There's no point for the example you've just given.

Take The Quietus and their recent series of outing various "problematic" artists and thus doing their bit to ruin them. These are bands and labels who have worked with TQ over the years and now they find themselves stabbed in the back. That's what they get for letting these snakes in in the first place. That's why no one should work with them.

It's perfectly possible to build a label and an organisation that sustains itself without the support of this type of music media.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on October 08, 2019, 09:02:52 AMGuys who run labels, publish 'zines, put out "podcasts", are not solely in business of me me me. There is certain curiosity what often did happen, and what could happen, when artform blossomed and something emerged that inspired and vitalized things for decades. Never, absolutely never, happened due one guy that just cared what he did himself.

This I totally agree with. It's also pretty easy to see who does this and who doesn't.


Först när du blottar strupen ska du få nåd, ditt as...

Balor/SS1535

Quote from: holy ghost on October 07, 2019, 01:22:12 AM
Speaking specifically about the local scene there's a lot of crossover between noise/experimental and the LGBTQ+ community and other groups who (typically) share a similar political outlook - I wouldn't expect that they'd just go "oh shit I love this. But.... Whitehouse! Well I guess I better know my place and just be quiet". I find that our scene has pretty much adopted a policy of "no hate/no bullshit" and it's actually a pretty nice thing. Are there edgy PE shows happening that I'm just not aware of? I have no idea (there very well might be?) but I don't see the "cancel culture" everyone is so worried about, you can either get with it or do your own thing. There's a pretty large crossover between the grindcore and noise scenes here so the politics are bound to overlap too.

I think it is interesting that you mention this, as I think that the "I know my place" mentality and its accompanying modesty have largely been ejected from modern culture.  Everyone just wants openings to be handed to them without having to put forth effort and earn their right to have one.

That all being said, it is always nice to be open and inviting to new people who are interested in what your community is also interested in - even if that means putting up with someone who might not completely agree with much of what they encounter once they join.  The real problem arises when they expect everyone else to change and conform to their tastes (sometimes they are right about what is wrong though!).  The area in which I am located has had some people force shows to shut down (Marduk, if I remember correctly), so as long as your scene doesn't do so then that is great for everyone.

holy ghost

#50
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on October 08, 2019, 07:49:56 PMThat all being said, it is always nice to be open and inviting to new people who are interested in what your community is also interested in - even if that means putting up with someone who might not completely agree with much of what they encounter once they join.  The real problem arises when they expect everyone else to change and conform to their tastes (sometimes they are right about what is wrong though!).  The area in which I am located has had some people force shows to shut down (Marduk, if I remember correctly), so as long as your scene doesn't do so then that is great for everyone.

I can't speak on behalf of "my scene" but I do know there's a lot of people not thrilled about certain elements and simply created their own space and their own culture around it and done their own thing. After all, no one "speaks for noise" as a whole with any authority and as a music genre/sub culture is always evolving and changing. I don't think there's any huge divisions, I don't think there's really any drama. I mean we're talking about making a welcoming space for people here. It's not that radical a concept, even for "noise music".

Balor/SS1535

Quote from: holy ghost on October 09, 2019, 07:17:59 PM
Quote from: Balor/SS1535 on October 08, 2019, 07:49:56 PMThat all being said, it is always nice to be open and inviting to new people who are interested in what your community is also interested in - even if that means putting up with someone who might not completely agree with much of what they encounter once they join.  The real problem arises when they expect everyone else to change and conform to their tastes (sometimes they are right about what is wrong though!).  The area in which I am located has had some people force shows to shut down (Marduk, if I remember correctly), so as long as your scene doesn't do so then that is great for everyone.

I can't speak on behalf of "my scene" but I do know there's a lot of people not thrilled about certain elements and simply created their own space and their own culture around it and done their own thing. After all, no one "speaks for noise" as a whole with any authority and as a music genre/sub culture is always evolving and changing. I don't think there's any huge divisions, I don't think there's really any drama. I mean we're talking about making a welcoming space for people here. It's not that radical a concept, even for "noise music".

I totally agree.  It is basic politeness to be willing to allow other interested people come and join in - especially if you want to call yourself a "scene."  It doesn't matter what you are doing.  I also like that you point out how people in your area are actively taking a role in creating their own spaces.  Instead of merely complaining about something, it is far more worthwhile to go out and be productive in ways that you deem more positive.  To me, that should be a sign of a healthy scene rather than a precursor to any degradation.

NO PART OF IT

I am thoroughly and completely bored with propaganda or advertising of any kind in recorded or printed/visual artistic mediums.  I do not give people money to hear them tell me about about how I should follow their ideologies, whether it be "anarchy", whatever ridiculous "uprising" nonsense people are on about, or anything else.  Parodies also bore me.  Most noise artists are not funny, not revelatory, utterly banal in their little satires and meme culture.   I can appreciate a certain theatricality with noise and power electronics, so long as it is not a "call to action".  I look at noise as art, just not generally made by people who go to art galleries, and as such, concepts presented should raise questions, or at least conversations.

What I see is a general shift in sadists VS. masochists.   The purported sadists are being integrated with too many masochists, and the lines are being blurred in ways that the sadists dislike, so the purported sadists complain, and therefore welcome the masochists to act as sadists.  The problem is that the roles of sadism and masochism are being blurred.  Being into noise is inherently masochistic, to some degree, but now, the forum for the type of people who pretend to be sadists but are actually masochists because they only rip the wings off of butterflies until someone bigger than them comes around to "put them in their place", those people are being exposed, as well as people who have an actual vision or idea that isn't necessarily pleasant.  Both are masochists, some are more valiant than others, and now the people who out them are not necessarily 100% sadists, but not entirely masochists either, and they have an outlet now.  Prior to that, they were 100& masochists, and it was nice.  They didn't try to play every show, they just attended with the hopes of getting their heads blown off by noise.  Now, I don't know what the hell people go to shows for, I rarely see people come to shows who don't do noise and aren't in it for some sort of "networking opportunity".  Total masochism. 

Take for instance, the wealthy person who moves above or nearby a music venue, then complains about the noise.  Those people deserve to be shot, and they know it. 

Also, Sadly, I can't name too many venues that allow loudness, I mean truly loud noise anymore, much less nazi/misogynistic imagery, etc.  It has become largely pointless, especially if you're going to be sharing a bill with someone who will complain about not having enough time to set up, and another who takes way too long to set up, and all of them are either sucking off the corpses of former glories and just sucking.     And nobody knows how to use their expensive synthesizers. 

I have always preferred the idea of noise infiltrating other scenes, and I prefer to go to shows with diverse line ups, in which case, at the very least, it is good to "turn & burn" after pissing everybody off and let the chips fall where they may. 

I don't really mind Noise and power electronics becoming more popular.  As mentioned above, I still don't see a lot of people showing up, but I'll add that people don't show up typically unless it's an artist who is good-looking, generally, so everyone's subconscious is somewhat to blame for this so called "gentrification" of noise.   I am a full-on supporter of ugly and mean motherfuckers with ugly approaches to life, as long as they have basic manners.    People who have actually abused and raped people make it bad for those who are just trying to work out their own personal fetishes and traumas, or just their crazy ideas, and I do think it's important to make that distinction in terms of "cancel culture".   
A caterpillar that goes around trying to rip the wings off of butterflies is not a more dominant caterpillar, just a caterpillar that is looking for a bigger caterpillar to crush him.  Some caterpillars are mad that they will never grow to be butterflies.
 
https://www.nopartofit.bandcamp.com

Cranial Blast

#53
Quote from: PTM Jim on October 05, 2019, 07:16:43 PMIt is 100% the WORST thing that has happened to the scene, at least in the US. I blame the punks for coming in because it was something new to them and then them bringing their punk morals and attempting (read: pretty much successfully) to completely change the dynamics. It's a microcosm of call-out culture.
I don't understand why anyone would even be interested in something that they are so appalled by and have the nerve to come in and change what has existed many many years before they were born.

I agree with your entire paragraph completely, as it's quite accurate especially in the US. You're correct in your assessment about punks being the ones to blame, they've definitely tried to re-brand with their values. I kind of feel like there was a period of that same kind of shit with black metal in the 2006-2007 era in the US, where they tried doing that same thing and then eventually somewhat backing off most of it now, especially when it countered their values to such a point that they couldn't force or try to hide the misanthropic views any longer without being hippycrits. I think they kind of abandoned it in a sense, not a battle worth fighting for so to speak and their not going to wear Burzum shirts anymore especially in 2023, like they might have back in 2006. I think noise is on it's way out anyways, it was just this thing for the moment like black metal was for them at that time. Feel like punks today especially seem to gravitate more to being punk as an "idea", social movement or set of mortal values then just some people who like killer music, but of course NOT all punks are to blame for this.

Bleak Existence

i'm into PE HN since around 95'liked how it was back then 100% more than now - start to HATE the underground in general NOISE include why - none of your business.

EXU

This thread is pretty funny to read from a Brazilian perspective, because experimental and noise is a rich people's game around here, mostly. You got God Pussy as the sole exception, and some broken bedroom noise heads too far from each other and with no clout at all in the wealthy scenes you people are used to. The cost for cassette releases are prohibitive here, not even a possibility for the "middle class". Noisecore aside that's the reality down here: no daddy money = no scene/no venues/no kvlt physical releases/no gringo love.
It doesn't help that a lot of our noise is pretty lackluster tho! :)

Leewar

I find Instagram is particularly entertaining for this. Various labels/artists posting such hilarious statement's as "If you dont support trans rights then noise isnt for you!"

Confuzzled

Quote from: EXU on December 29, 2023, 06:34:15 AMThis thread is pretty funny to read from a Brazilian perspective, because experimental and noise is a rich people's game around here, mostly. You got God Pussy as the sole exception, and some broken bedroom noise heads too far from each other and with no clout at all in the wealthy scenes you people are used to. The cost for cassette releases are prohibitive here, not even a possibility for the "middle class". Noisecore aside that's the reality down here: no daddy money = no scene/no venues/no kvlt physical releases/no gringo love.
It doesn't help that a lot of our noise is pretty lackluster tho! :)

wow. I always considered noise to be the most budget friendly form of expression. As an outsider what is a low income route for producing sound in Brazil?

Heppakirjat

Standing at the fruit aisle at hypermarket, recording industrial drone from cooling device and clanking shopping carts - talk about gentrified noise! Oh, the stench of the middle class. Came to think of this topic.

Andrew McIntosh

Quote from: Leewar on December 29, 2023, 12:59:41 PMI find Instagram is particularly entertaining for this. Various labels/artists posting such hilarious statement's as "If you dont support trans rights then noise isnt for you!"

I'm almost impressed with that level of bullshit.
Shikata ga nai.