Special Interest

GENERAL VISUAL ART / LITERATURE DISCUSSION => GENERAL VISUAL ART / LITERATURE DISCUSSION => Topic started by: EXU on February 11, 2019, 09:08:26 PM



Title: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: EXU on February 11, 2019, 09:08:26 PM
Well, by now every one of you must be aware of this, but I made a thread because I think it may be an interesting topic to all of us in a less broad sense, I mean, everyone who ever posted on this forum will be tagged as a nazi from now on, since guilty by association and impossible (?) to check internet commentaries are cabal proof of something.

This article, eh...

https://thequietus.com/articles/26024-skullflower-matthew-bower-fascism-racism (https://thequietus.com/articles/26024-skullflower-matthew-bower-fascism-racism)

PS. I know this kind of stuff is always happening but I wanted some clickbait thread title... Don't know if should have posted it on the main forum too.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Harvest on February 12, 2019, 12:15:02 AM
hehehe, that pasi quote is not good optics by most standards. what does one expect from a mind so violent and filthy? surprised it hasn't come up sooner as most anything that can be traced back to iphar is getting the big rubber stamp of "nazi" thanks to a certain infamous comp.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: EXU on February 12, 2019, 03:21:20 AM
The "Pure" being a wink to nazism is just too much for me to handle.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: re:evolution on February 12, 2019, 07:47:54 AM
https://thequietus.com/users/20441 (https://thequietus.com/users/20441)

Note the three articles attributed to the author of the Skullflower hatchet job. Clearly there is a wider agenda at play, and based on the bottom article, it sound like other witch-hunts are to be evoked as part of an ongoing 'expose'.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Kim V on February 12, 2019, 10:24:08 AM
https://thequietus.com/users/20441 (https://thequietus.com/users/20441)

Note the three articles attributed to the author of the Skullflower hatchet job. Clearly there is a wider agenda at play, and based on the bottom article, it sound like other witch-hunts are to be evoked as part of an ongoing 'expose'.

could be right. But fuck 'em. We have suffered this since day one. We're still here, doing what we do.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Ashmonger on February 12, 2019, 02:34:28 PM
Wow, what a weak article. In general I like people being nuanced more than with blatant standpoints, but this guy is constantly taking down his own points. This reads like "this and that is not so bad in itself.... but this guy is a nazi and nazis are bad mkay".

Also, the article "Beyond The Iron Gates: How Nazi-Satanists Infiltrated the UK Underground" has this line in the introduction "Please note - this article contains imagery that some readers might find disturbing." Say no more...


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: ConcreteMascara on February 12, 2019, 03:19:45 PM
https://thequietus.com/users/20441 (https://thequietus.com/users/20441)

Note the three articles attributed to the author of the Skullflower hatchet job. Clearly there is a wider agenda at play, and based on the bottom article, it sound like other witch-hunts are to be evoked as part of an ongoing 'expose'.

The “Beyond the Iron Gates” article is so absurd I chuckled my way through the whole thing. The idea that the Order of the 9 Angels are some deadly neo-nazi cabal instead of anything mlre than cosplay nerds is laughable


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: tiny_tove on February 12, 2019, 09:25:41 PM
fucking idiots.

andrew king is the most quiet person in the world. guys who are beefing with him have personal issues and have been suggested by some irrational moron on other side.

there is no way out.

no debating, no interaction, separate scene and kick the shit out of them if they show up protesting.
they are damaging people and there should be ever again one single hint of respect for these gentlemen.

I am not a political person since i am happy live by pretty different standards that are unacceptable for many and have no issues with lefties (most people in industrial are), my issues is with people creating evidence from hear-a-say, warriors of freedom that hit the wrong targets and live behind a keyboard and then cry when hit by justice.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: A-Z on February 13, 2019, 12:36:24 AM
Quote
Andrew Dymock, 21, and Oskar Dunn-Koczorowki, 17, leading members of Sonnenkrieg Division, a British offshoot of National Action with strong ties to Atomwaffen Division and the O9A, were arrested and charged with terrorist offences after distributing memes suggesting that Prince Harry should be shot as a race traitor.

excuse me, what?


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: tiny_tove on February 13, 2019, 01:01:12 AM
"We invite Matthew Bower to respond to this article"

So since when this Miller guy is an authority?

I hope Bower does not fall in the trap and answer. The article is full of mistakes and superficial. a cut and paste of already existing crap.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: online prowler on February 13, 2019, 01:43:33 AM
HA! This was new to me and fairly uninteresting. Thanks for shit post. This guy, the credited pen-man Dylan Miller, couldn't even write a proper meme. Just sad click-bait explotation, couldn't read the uninformed text in full, but laughed out loud to Exhibitionistic explode-in-all-directions BU quote! That was grand. Anyways, Miller sounds like a guy who'd post his own article in a noise forum to stir up his own fart. Glad you beat him to it.



Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: sunandsteel on February 13, 2019, 09:16:44 AM
Seems like its the beginning of noise/PE's turn to get the good ol' Kim Kelly/sanitizing treatment.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on February 13, 2019, 09:17:31 AM
I would not be surprised if the guy behind writing articles under name Dylan Miller would be exposed to be someone rather familiar in the scene? Although... "Investigation" is so shallow, that anyone could pull that article based on organizers facebook post.

My favorite quote would be probably:
Quote from: Dylan Miller of Quetus
Certainly they have a welcoming home on the Cold Spring label, where martial edgelords, cryptofascists and their apologists rub shoulders with noise and industrial artists too physically or psychically dead to care anymore.

haha!!!

Whether he is newbie or just someone who doesn't get it, it is quite well displayed here:

Quote
Yes, Bower has spent a career exploring the abyss, but at some point he also became the abyss. And in our fucked up, fracturing and fractious world that abyss is no longer an obsidian edge ready to expose the hypocrisies of the mainstream – it is the mainstream, and it has engulfed us. This is why we, Raw Power and others have finally drawn a line in the sand – you are either with the people who seek to inflame hatred and division, or you are against them. We are against them.

I doubt, that it was somehow a rule of industrial music, that one explores the abyss, in attempt to expose the hypocrisies of the mainstream? I'd say it is rather to expose yourself to abyss to expose something in you and perhaps listeners who may experience the same. With open mind, free of moralism and spite. To look the abyss, eye to eye, and in the end conclusions may vary. You just might come into conclusion that general impression was right. Or you might come into conclusion that society that has conditioned us to respond like the average "Dylan Miller" and you see world in new angle. Becoming abyss - perhaps! Exposing "mainstream" is byproduct of this.

These characters, just ride on the high horse pointing out lame, utterly lame, verbal diarrhea what could be summed to "brexit.. trump... nazis.." -wail. So engulfed by evils... oh man. Talk about drooling dogs.

Industrial music clearly has social function still today. I don't think it is about men who are psychically dead to care anymore, but about men who are psychically so alive and driven by faustian spirit that they do not mind crossing the "lines drawn in sand" by anonymous retards.
I'm quite confident that Bower won't be issuing any silly statements. It's would be setting good example, as some old English industrial veterans have been disappointingly ripe for moralist crusaders to pick up and use for embarrassing publicity stunts.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Strömkarlen on February 13, 2019, 12:07:33 PM
Speaking of people named Miller. Why is never Daniel Miller of Mute getting any shite? He use to engineer Boyds live shows in Europe for crying out loud and released his records. Oh, yeah he is rich and has a lawyer or two...


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Ashmonger on February 13, 2019, 02:28:44 PM
There's an article about Black Metal too, here: https://thequietus.com/articles/25989-darkthrone-transilvanian-hunger-emperor-in-the-nightside-eclipse-review-anniversary?fbclid=IwAR0KAjQbaQQQWEujqivTYSjqiXPymCSzLy67nwUs5BeB9ejM6yao7opoNpI (https://thequietus.com/articles/25989-darkthrone-transilvanian-hunger-emperor-in-the-nightside-eclipse-review-anniversary?fbclid=IwAR0KAjQbaQQQWEujqivTYSjqiXPymCSzLy67nwUs5BeB9ejM6yao7opoNpI).
Didn't read it in full, just the first part and there's an interesting sentence here about Faust and him playing again in a band with other Emperor-members: "It's possible that prison time and the years of growth since his early adulthood crime have changed his views and behaviours, but it's hard to say that this matters when there is another human who will never get a chance to experience the life that was stolen from him." Further on the writer explains that the guys from Emperor think he's had his sentence. But according to the writer that doesn't matter. The writer clearly has the moral high ground. *sigh*

About that O9A article: I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who take O9A serious enough to act upon it, but of course it's all too clear from the article that the writer has every interest in presenting it way bigger and worse than it is. That he mentions that a guy is being charged with terrorist offences for distributing memes drives that point home. He of course thinks this is justified and has no clue that it will make his argumentation etc hysterical.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: GEWALTMONOPOL on February 13, 2019, 04:13:20 PM
Speaking of people named Miller. Why is never Daniel Miller of Mute getting any shite? He use to engineer Boyds live shows in Europe for crying out loud and released his records. Oh, yeah he is rich and has a lawyer or two...

Also, The Quietus is a wannabe The Wire and isn't going to ruffle the feathers of a major mover and shaker within the independent UK music industry like Mute. They know this and will keep within the safe margins of who they attack. Cold Spring, in spite of it's size, is still enough of an outsider from polite indie label society that TQ risk nothing when having a pop at them. Mute, arguably one of the biggest independent labels in the world, with affiliations everywhere is a totally differen't level. They'll never go there.




Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: eraciator on February 13, 2019, 04:19:24 PM
Quote
Andrew Dymock, 21, and Oskar Dunn-Koczorowki, 17, leading members of Sonnenkrieg Division, a British offshoot of National Action with strong ties to Atomwaffen Division and the O9A, were arrested and charged with terrorist offences after distributing memes suggesting that Prince Harry should be shot as a race traitor.

excuse me, what?

My recollection is that he was charged for incitement for the memes (and possibly other stuff we don’t know about) and being a member of a proscribed organisation. The latter is basically terror related.

The former is one to watch for UK people with fringe politics or producers of extreme material. Certainly some of the veterans of Class War have said there is no way they would get away with some of the early issues of their paper now.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: eraciator on February 13, 2019, 04:29:28 PM
Bower’s been trying to wind people up for the last few years with this stuff. Magick defends itself eh.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Cementimental on February 13, 2019, 06:08:49 PM
can't decide if this being the next article up there is a coincidence or genius trolling https://thequietus.com/articles/26028-witchfinder-general-music-electric-wizard


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: EXU on February 13, 2019, 06:59:28 PM
Speaking of people named Miller. Why is never Daniel Miller of Mute getting any shite? He use to engineer Boyds live shows in Europe for crying out loud and released his records. Oh, yeah he is rich and has a lawyer or two...

Also, The Quietus is a wannabe The Wire and isn't going to ruffle the feathers of a major mover and shaker within the independent UK music industry like Mute. They know this and will keep within the safe margins of who they attack. Cold Spring, in spite of it's size, is still enough of an outsider from polite indie label society that TQ risk nothing when having a pop at them. Mute, arguably one of the biggest independent labels in the world, with affiliations everywhere is a totally differen't level. They'll never go there.


It's telling that not a word is said about Justin Broadrick links with Skullflower that are stronger than "played some show with them once". JK Flesh is one of the headliners from the Raw Power (pfff...) Festival.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: l.b. on February 13, 2019, 07:23:34 PM
i would have more respect for these fucks if they would at least stand by their stupid principles. these articles never make any real conclusions and the sentences always end with wishy-washy bullshit like "is he a nazi? we don't know. should you stop buying his music? i cant say for sure" like fuck you dude, don't waste my time with this shit. hipsters in noise is one thing but stay the fuck out of black metal


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on February 13, 2019, 09:05:01 PM
i would have more respect for these fucks if they would at least stand by their stupid principles. these articles never make any real conclusions and the sentences always end with wishy-washy bullshit like "is he a nazi? we don't know. should you stop buying his music? i cant say for sure" like fuck you dude, don't waste my time with this shit. hipsters in noise is one thing but stay the fuck out of black metal

Too late. BM is infested by people like that. Or lets say, their side of metal. I don't know single guy who'd have issues listening Emperor due member stabbing faggot who tried to take advantage of teenage metalhead. I guess they exist somewhere, but I never met one.

It is true, that very few articles make conclusions. I would assume that it is sign of playing it safe. Authors certainly knows that it is enough to raise question, and this question will remain in peoples mind, despite what was the real conclusion - if there was any. Whatever target of accusation will say, the original outrage will be remember. If shit hits the fan, guy who wrote the smear campaign can yell "well, I didn't say he was...", ...like a little bitch.

Remember when mr. 88MM a.k.a. Dagon of Inquisition was accused of... hmm. what exactly? Just about half of metal scene cried over decade old case where man has maybe watched something online. We don't know what it is. We don't know why. But outrage fueled by shittiest metal blogs caused them quite a lot. Even people who generally have some sense, lost their shit over speculation of "what it could have been". As if transgressive underground suddenly turned to be moralist branch of Jerry Springer audience. Repulsive incident indeed.

Equally repulsed, I can not understate how disappointing it is to see someone like Philip Best to apologize (now related to this Bower case) in social media for old compilation tape he did as teenager. Considering that he ain't producing exactly "nice stuff" now either. So what the fuck? What is there to apologize?

Before someone says you don't know, before you take the heat, before you got something to lose... Well, I guess there has been occasion or another. And without doubt will be few more to come. I would hope people to understand that to go agains the current, means friction. You know you are going to right direction when there is friction.

I'd keep my fingers crossed that Bower, like said, will set good example of old English scene to keep his calm. I guess Justin of Cold Spring has. Very much respectable behavior.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on February 13, 2019, 11:24:23 PM
Equally repulsed, I can not understate how disappointing it is to see someone like Philip Best to apologize (now related to this Bower case) in social media for old compilation tape he did as teenager. Considering that he ain't producing exactly "nice stuff" now either. So what the fuck? What is there to apologize?

Any source for said apology you could link? Would be interested to read how he phrased it.
When this happens I am often not sure where the pressure for making a public statement comes from, since most of the time antifa and such don't really have any arguments at all. I guess it's just "general fear" of online character assassination or damage to business or artist image. However I agree such apologies or even justification regarding own artwork are very weak, like losing one's face.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: PTM Jim on February 14, 2019, 02:44:49 AM
An apology goes nowhere because those whom it is directed at in the first place almost always don't accept it anyway, unless you are on their side and made a "mistake." I was so disappointed when Nyogthaeblisz did their long-winded justification/apology. They are supposed to be a band that says 'fuck you' or nothing at all. I'd rather people push back harder or double down. Saying sorry is going to perpetuate the problem and keep them justifying their calls outs because we look weak and scared. 


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: l.b. on February 14, 2019, 02:45:44 AM
I guess they exist somewhere, but I never met one.
here in US plenty of "pizza & beer" type metalheads get all bent out of shape about faust

Quote
Equally repulsed, I can not understate how disappointing it is to see someone like Philip Best to apologize (now related to this Bower case) in social media for old compilation tape he did as teenager.
would also be curious to see a link to this or something, not familiar with this particular incident but reminds me of william bennett and mark solotroff feeling compelled to write long facebook screeds in light of the, ah, "fresh attention" as it were

edit: curious also what gets "a pass," plenty of otherwise-lefty types love genocide organ. guys from inade/loki found don't seem to have any problems


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on February 14, 2019, 03:12:29 AM
edit: curious also what gets "a pass," plenty of otherwise-lefty types love genocide organ. guys from inade/loki found don't seem to have any problems

As those are like the 2 most popular German exports the widespread audience is not surprising let alone none of the associated groups glorify fascist ideologies and conduct themselves in a relatively private manner. But even if that wasn't the case, the reason why artists are attacked, harassed, cancelled is literally not more than a snowflake being triggered, so "what gets a pass" is totally unpredictable.
Sorry if this is off-topic it seems to be drifting off into general free-speech/censorship bullshit.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: HongKongGoolagong on February 14, 2019, 09:13:56 AM
Bower’s been trying to wind people up for the last few years with this stuff.

Releasing records dealing with North African themes for an anti-imperialist record label run by an Algerian guy living in Egypt. Travelling to Texas to collaborate with a virulently and vocally anti-Trump married gay couple. When booked at an old-school industrial festival, hiring a crossdressing shaman to speak in tongues in front of all those insignia wearers. Donating a track to get some kid off the internet's record label started, a label named after a feminist Beyonce song with all the cultural coding that implies.

The "Dylan Miller" pieces are a collaboration between John Doran and Luke Turner to my knowledge.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Strömkarlen on February 14, 2019, 11:24:19 AM
Speaking of people named Miller. Why is never Daniel Miller of Mute getting any shite? He use to engineer Boyds live shows in Europe for crying out loud and released his records. Oh, yeah he is rich and has a lawyer or two...

Also, The Quietus is a wannabe The Wire and isn't going to ruffle the feathers of a major mover and shaker within the independent UK music industry like Mute. They know this and will keep within the safe margins of who they attack. Cold Spring, in spite of it's size, is still enough of an outsider from polite indie label society that TQ risk nothing when having a pop at them. Mute, arguably one of the biggest independent labels in the world, with affiliations everywhere is a totally differen't level. They'll never go there.

Yeah. I'm also ready with the popcorn for the fall-out over Lord of Chaos film. I don't see them pushing that is a film based on a book by Michael Moynihan... but on the other hand with Ridley Scoots company, Vice and 20 century fox involved the  likes of TQ will tread gently.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: online prowler on February 14, 2019, 12:05:40 PM
Bower’s been trying to wind people up for the last few years with this stuff.

The "Dylan Miller" pieces are a collaboration between John Doran and Luke Turner to my knowledge.

What is your documentation on this?


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Cementimental on February 14, 2019, 01:12:27 PM
Equally repulsed, I can not understate how disappointing it is to see someone like Philip Best to apologize (now related to this Bower case) in social media for old compilation tape he did as teenager. Considering that he ain't producing exactly "nice stuff" now either. So what the fuck? What is there to apologize?

Any source for said apology you could link? Would be interested to read how he phrased it.

I massively respect that apology and don't for a minute think it's anything he feels pressured into or isn't genuine about, especially considering it was in the context of his posts critical of this whole anti-skullflower thing. I don't see why someone should be expected to still defend and refuse to explain some dumb teenage prank decades later just so a load of nostalgic industrial record collectors can still feel like it was 'real' or whatever.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: HongKongGoolagong on February 14, 2019, 03:42:59 PM
The "Dylan Miller" pieces are a collaboration between John Doran and Luke Turner to my knowledge.
What is your documentation on this?

Doran on social media saying that the pieces were his and Turner's attempts at self-accountability, having given promotion to a lot of this area of music in the past. And I guess being aware that some associations won't look good to future employers, corporations etc. Seeing as he is about to launch a BBC series New Weird Britain, Turner has a first novel out via a multinational publisher etc.

The Skullflower recent LPs on Nashazphone are still available via advertising links on The Quietus website. The clicks on this series have probably saved the website's financial plight single handedly.

Magick defends itself, so does money.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on February 14, 2019, 03:58:44 PM
I don't see why someone should be expected to still defend and refuse to explain some dumb teenage prank decades later.

I dont see what there is to apologize for? Considering that apart  name, there is no wp music in it. Just juicy sex noise. Isn’t that basically rough category where one could still file Many of his works?

It is possible that some people respect apologies. I come from generation where ug artists did not apologize for hurt feelings. You expected listeners to think themselves. Times are different now, obviously.

That said, one can be sure What is result. one follows that particular discussion further sees the proof: it becomes blatantly clear how the only ones who would demand ”apologize/explanation” will not accept it.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: online prowler on February 14, 2019, 06:16:58 PM
The "Dylan Miller" pieces are a collaboration between John Doran and Luke Turner to my knowledge.
What is your documentation on this?

Doran on social media saying that the pieces were his and Turner's attempts at self-accountability, having given promotion to a lot of this area of music in the past. And I guess being aware that some associations won't look good to future employers, corporations etc. Seeing as he is about to launch a BBC series New Weird Britain, Turner has a first novel out via a multinational publisher etc.

The Skullflower recent LPs on Nashazphone are still available via advertising links on The Quietus website. The clicks on this series have probably saved the website's financial plight single handedly.

Magick defends itself, so does money.


You have a link? Would like to see.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: cr on February 14, 2019, 09:22:40 PM
The "Pure" being a wink to nazism is just too much for me to handle.

I'm absolutely sure, that Total was totally inspired by totalitarian Nazi regimes. And Skullflower undoubtedly got part of it's name from the SS skull.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: aububs on February 14, 2019, 09:46:21 PM
I don't see why someone should be expected to still defend and refuse to explain some dumb teenage prank decades later.

I dont see what there is to apologize for? Considering that apart  name, there is no wp music in it. Just juicy sex noise. Isn’t that basically rough category where one could still file Many of his works?

none of his other works reference nazism. he's apologising for the work that does. which is good. not being a nazi is good, as i'm sure everybody on the special interests forum will agree


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: spiritassembly on February 14, 2019, 09:47:08 PM
In response to cr, above: no, not really.


http://skullflower-skullflowertruth.blogspot.com/2011/10/name.html (http://skullflower-skullflowertruth.blogspot.com/2011/10/name.html)



Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: aububs on February 14, 2019, 10:44:55 PM
it was posted as part of a discussion on nate young's facebook timeline, i think


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: cr on February 14, 2019, 10:52:08 PM
In response to cr, above: no, not really.


http://skullflower-skullflowertruth.blogspot.com/2011/10/name.html (http://skullflower-skullflowertruth.blogspot.com/2011/10/name.html)



Yeah...and I was completely serious.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Theodore on February 15, 2019, 06:03:29 PM
I don't see why someone should be expected to still defend and refuse to explain some dumb teenage prank decades later just so a load of nostalgic industrial record collectors can still feel like it was 'real' or whatever.

I dont see why someone should accuse and demand apologies for some teenage prank [or not] decades later. Actualy i see, a political agenda and in most cases not supported / promoted for ideological reasons but for public relations, business, money.

This is not an artist said to friends and fans when in chat "Hey, dont take things i did decades ago too seriously" . Or it came out naturally in a nice interview. This is a system demanding humilating apologies and loyalty from now on. Systematicaly ...

Anyway, everyone make his choices. Dignity or more gigs / promotion.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Cementimental on February 15, 2019, 06:38:35 PM
Quote
This is not an artist said to friends and fans when in chat "Hey, dont take things i did decades ago too seriously" .

yeah it pretty much was tho. I can't find the thread but it wasn't some 'SJW' twitter boogieman demanding an apology, or anyone from quietus or whevever. It just came up in a pretty constructive discussion in a facebook thread, not as a response to someone attacking him over it.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Theodore on February 16, 2019, 02:01:10 AM
Quote
This is not an artist said to friends and fans when in chat "Hey, dont take things i did decades ago too seriously" .

yeah it pretty much was tho. I can't find the thread but it wasn't some 'SJW' twitter boogieman demanding an apology, or anyone from quietus or whevever. It just came up in a pretty constructive discussion in a facebook thread, not as a response to someone attacking him over it.

Maybe. I mean i havent seen it, dont know. I wasnt talking about Best or anyone's specific case. In general, and not only about the small noise "scene" , it happens in every aspect of "public" life . This system attacks everyone who does or says something that doesnt fit their agenda. Their ultimate goal is that humiliating apology, which even if it's sincere, wont be accepted neither believed cause it's under pressure and blackmails. They dont care only to destroy you, but above all to humiliate you, to see you begging for their [!] forgiveness. That's the real demonstration of power and the clear message to everyone else, be like us, work with us or you will probably loose the most important a man has. Dignity, self-respect, call it what you like, you know what i mean ...


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on February 16, 2019, 09:29:38 AM
yeah it pretty much was tho. I can't find the thread but it wasn't some 'SJW' twitter boogieman demanding an apology, or anyone from quietus or whevever.

I suppose the thread is removed? "Pretty much" describes it well. Since one may see it as casual and constructive discussion and conclude that it is almost completely that. Yet, being almost...  another angle, is that rather public and well known guy who is known to stir trouble time to time, posts article and comments it's good writing and includes soon quote:

Quote
schoolboy Philip Best (Consumer Electronics/Whitehouse) released his infamous White Power cassette, and two volumes of Oswald Moseley speeches, on his Iphar cassette label (we’ll have more on this period in a future piece).

So, seeing your name mentioned, plus promise of more to come. Seeing people who operate on field of art quite close to you on verge of causing unnecessary obstacles... I can't blame much feeling urgent to comment somehow. I'm sure he regrets the tape title, as it is clear it still today causes more trouble than good things. To me it would feel that explanation would be fine, apology unnecessary. Why?

I dont see what there is to apologize for? Considering that apart  name, there is no wp music in it. Just juicy sex noise. Isn’t that basically rough category where one could still file Many of his works?

none of his other works reference nazism. he's apologising for the work that does. which is good. not being a nazi is good, as i'm sure everybody on the special interests forum will agree

People who oppose "nazism", generally oppose negative qualities what they associate with it. Discrimination, totalitarian authority, domination by the strong, acceptance of violence, anti-feminism, dehumanization and mockery of seemingly weaker groups of people, etc. They generally oppose these things regardless what brand is used to promote them. So for vast majority of folks, it doesn't really matter if you do not flirt with political history, but for example, just dehumanize women and glorify violence etc. If one looks at works of industrial/pe artists known somewhat provocative (in general, not even case of Best), you'll be bound to find this material. Some people do not like it nor they know how to handle it - beyond being outraged or disgusted. Even if they are completely unaware of motivations, true message, the standing offer of dialogue between material & listener.

It's like this Quietus comment section where someone was calling out Con-Dom. In fucking 2019! After every damn interview he has ever given, that speaks about modus operandi of project. And it still goes down to "hey, look he said the N-word some decades ago!!!". And as result you got handful of people running to defend how nice guy the artist is. And even if he is, that's besides the point.

There is rather great quote from GX of THE HATERS, about content of his work:
Quote from: GX in Troubled Sleep#3
The more people misunderstand me, the more I can understand myself. It's a kind of psychic calibration. Comparing a reinterpretation to the original intent gives me a deeper awareness of my own thought process. By this means, there is no passive audience, only collaborators.

Provocative artists, especially considering all the names mentioned here, are as far as I can tell, intelligent guys. They should know now that when you provoke, don't be surprised when people are provoked. If intention was just to piss off people, then work certainly succeeds. If one is to deliver more complex message and provocation is rather meant to spark people think outside the box -so to say-, one could start to observe why it is not getting through even if it seems plain obvious to artist? What I do not think intelligent guys are looking after, is conforming themselves to level of seemingly clueless mass. If that would the case, then it would be certainly easy as fuck: Apology, and get in the line.

(In cases, like name dropped Bizarre Uproar, it has no agenda beyond exploitative pleasures. It's sex noise from the world were sexual identities are told to flourish in all shapes and colors, and it certainly does.)


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Lazrs3 on February 16, 2019, 03:03:23 PM
I'd watched the fallout from this on Facebook and I feel Raw Power were keen to use Skullflower's name to give their weak festival some credibility, but then they realised that stabbing Bower in the back would give them plenty of free publicity, I'd never heard of them before this.

I hadn't even heard of the Quietus either, I checked the article at the time and it was laughable and weak. The same goes for the allegations made.





Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Cementimental on February 16, 2019, 03:28:55 PM
I feel Raw Power were keen to use Skullflower's name to give their weak festival some credibility, but then they realised that stabbing Bower in the back would give them plenty of free publicity, I'd never heard of them before this.

I on the other hand have not only heard of them but been to most of their very strong and credible festivals (always very high quality, well organised, well attended, good sound, good crowd, great lineups so long as you like mostly psych/heavy/doomy rock-ish stuff ha) and also have worked for the promoter on graphic design/posters for the very many really superb gigs they put on every month. I have know the promoter for absolutely years since he was putting on small DIY noise/experimental gigs, AKA before half the internet PE goons assuming Raw Power is some clueless 'hipster' noob festival had even discovered Whitehouse via youtube links they found on 4chan. :D

It's not true that he's some 'hipster' 'SJW' outsider, and it's not true that he's cynically kicking up a fuss for publicity. Whatever you think of the decision he has simply seen material and statements he personally finds unacceptable and, as he has absolutely every right to do, has cancelled an artist because of it after first giving them a chance to respond.

Doesn't look like Bower is too bothered by all this anyway, he's deleted his repost of the cancellation email, deleted blog comments supportive of him and gone back to posting horse photos and nice folksy pagan bits of wood :D


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Lazrs3 on February 16, 2019, 03:40:48 PM
I feel Raw Power were keen to use Skullflower's name to give their weak festival some credibility, but then they realised that stabbing Bower in the back would give them plenty of free publicity, I'd never heard of them before this.

AKA before half the internet PE goons assuming Raw Power is some clueless 'hipster' noob festival had even discovered Whitehouse via youtube links they found on 4chan. :D



Internet PE Goons, that's too funny. :D , I can't argue back, I don't mean to be rude, I am too amused and that made my day.  


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: HongKongGoolagong on February 16, 2019, 08:23:41 PM
I was having a private discussion with John Doran (Quietus, BBC, Vice mag etc etc) in the days before he decided to run with the piece. We managed to remain civil with each other - we have a number of real life friends in common.

Fairly convinced that the motives for this series are purely financial, unlike the ideological reasoning of previous dissenting voices calling for self-policing in underground (Christoph Fringeli/Datacide, Andy Wilson/WMTN, Stewart Home, John Eden etc).

Most recent interview with Bower clearly states that his star of origin is Sirius.

We are the opposers of the sun god and white bread family

http://magreb.org/2017/06/skullflower-eng/




Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: online prowler on February 16, 2019, 09:32:54 PM
I was having a private discussion with John Doran (Quietus, BBC, Vice mag etc etc) in the days before he decided to run with the piece. We managed to remain civil with each other - we have a number of real life friends in common.

Thanks for the notice S.

In what regards to the rest of this mess of a thread I cannot care less. Still there is an option for those whom want and cannot reach by iron fist. Utilize guerilla internet tactics and hit Quietus and related folk where it might hurt - in the 'cash-in internet clicks'. Would love to see a wave of social media reporting of their posts as spam, bullying, etc. Posts are at your disposal to be removed if you really care. Music is war.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: HongKongGoolagong on February 16, 2019, 10:03:10 PM
Excellent interview re: the Nashazphone label who released the last two Skullflower LPs before this tedious drama is at https://madamasr.com/en/2017/04/04/feature/culture/music-industry-conversations-hicham-chadly/



Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: EXU on February 17, 2019, 12:10:58 AM
I hadn't even heard of the Quietus either, I checked the article at the time and it was laughable and weak.

This one is quite enjoyable if I remember right:

https://thequietus.com/articles/13503-skullflower-stefan-jaworzyn-interview (https://thequietus.com/articles/13503-skullflower-stefan-jaworzyn-interview)

But I guess the new one received more clicks in a week than this one ever.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Cementimental on March 01, 2019, 01:55:57 PM
UPDATE: MB is selling a stick painted pink


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Lazrs3 on March 02, 2019, 01:32:25 PM
UPDATE: MB is selling a stick painted pink

Ahem - Fire Snake!


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Bloated Slutbag on March 04, 2019, 09:52:51 AM
I guess this is kind of inevitable when certain (political) tropes get mixed up with event called RAW POWER. Maybe put a little more thought into the name next time?


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: PuddysJacket on March 14, 2019, 08:02:13 PM
I guess this is kind of inevitable when certain (political) tropes get mixed up with event called RAW POWER. Maybe put a little more thought into the name next time?


Seriously. Pick a different Stooges album next time, one that can't be misconstrued as a veiled attack on women/minorities/plants/animals/food choices.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Cementimental on March 15, 2019, 02:18:25 AM
they are waaay ahead of you :)

(https://tix-media-files.s3.amazonaws.com/img/cache/img/events/1311/baba-yagas-hut-all-n/fun_house2_web_fulllineup/8c759b059faa1b376e68db105fe521f8.jpg)

(deleted a more argumentative reply :) )


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Cementimental on March 15, 2019, 02:34:52 PM
CALLING ALL PE GOONS: remind me again how the Black Sun is an A-OK symbol to put on the cover of your album of prosumer preset synth drones, weak yelling from an MS Word lyric sheet thru an behringer echo and goofy flanger mic feedback, or suitable for your middle class 'occult goth' living room decor in the background of your cat photos on instagram, and that ordinary non-nazi people offended by it are being unreasonable 'snowflakes' jumping to ridiculous conclusions
 
(https://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/204/photos/547000/breaking-christchurch-mosque-shooting-deans-avenue-bangladesh-team-latest-1587547.jpg)


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on March 15, 2019, 03:36:19 PM
CALLING ALL PE GOONS: remind me again how the Black Sun is an A-OK symbol to put on the cover of your album

Should this be understood in the same way as demanding replies if it is still A-OK to keep playing violent videogames and using social media and messageboards for memes?

If one wants to draw direct links to shooting incident and Skullflowers decoration, oh please... PE goons have used the symbol long before manifest of mr. Tarrant, for wide variety of purposes and meanings. I doubt usage decreases at all, except is someone is worried about getting kicked out of "festival" for wide variety of petty reasons people can come up with.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Cementimental on March 15, 2019, 03:43:07 PM
Mostly joking/mocking but my point is that it's just not surprising that, if you use that symbol, most people won't want anything to do with your band and it's disingenuous to be shocked by that or act like they are the ones being unreasonable. I found it ironic to see the symbol appear in such a horrific and serious context so shortly after the flash-in-the-pan skullflower drama.

Appearing (whether it's actually the case or not) to be on the side of mass-murdering neo-nazis isn't really all that 'petty' reason for someone to kick you off a bill.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: tiny_tove on March 15, 2019, 04:06:42 PM
is the document downloadable anywhere?


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on March 15, 2019, 04:22:50 PM
Appearing (whether it's actually the case or not) to be on the side of mass-murdering neo-nazis isn't really all that 'petty' reason for someone to kick you off a bill.

Well, I find it petty - if we're talking about misinformed hysteria, which is the actual reason. Not specific content of artist. Of course if we are talking about alternative music festival, I expect nothing less. If getting kicked out from actual industrial/noise fests, then I find it amusing that after all these years, people could only approach subject matter based on surface level assumptions and tabloid level conclusions.

I personally can't be emotionally moved by such incidents or see them be more than curious incidents in course of history, Nevertheless:
At this point I'd prefer that if people -including the notorious PE GOONS- feel like spreading the manifesto or video, they do not do it over SI forum. Just for forum to be sort of... ehm, less "magnet for trouble". I'm pretty sure anyone can find them online if they search for them.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Cementimental on March 15, 2019, 07:00:18 PM
Yeah that sounds wise. And yes the Daily Mail are/were sharing it so it's not exactly hard to find it seems


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on March 15, 2019, 07:03:24 PM
Appearing (whether it's actually the case or not) to be on the side of mass-murdering neo-nazis isn't really all that 'petty' reason for someone to kick you off a bill.

How is he siding with Torrant? I don't understand.
Anyways cheers for mentioning the manifesto as I don't read the news, it's pretty hilarious.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: bitewerksMTB on March 15, 2019, 11:02:50 PM
The little bit of news I've watched, it would seem that Christchurch NZ is in the U.S. because they keep talking about America, Trump, etc.



Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: A-Z on March 16, 2019, 01:54:44 AM
prosumer preset synth

behringer echo

but what if it's a moog voyager and a roland re-201?
or a music easel and an h8000fw?

just trying to understand why you have to be so specific
as if gear price determines what is A-OK to put on album covers


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Theodore on March 16, 2019, 01:58:16 AM
CALLING ALL PE GOONS: remind me again how the Black Sun is an A-OK symbol to put on the cover of your album ...

According to this kind of "logic" we should also revise our history and heroes' names cause he had written "Turkofagos" on his gun.

(https://www.ptisidiastima.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/1-3.jpg)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikitaras


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: sunandsteel on March 16, 2019, 03:48:44 AM
Never understood why people who make music/art that is deemed "controversial" should have to answer for unconnected events that happened half a world away. Always found it quite annoying and preposterous.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Bob on March 16, 2019, 08:31:37 PM
If it helps put it in context I believe this news story is what led to the series of articles on The Quietus.

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45919730

This issue was that Claudia Patatas (who was sentenced to five years) was seen to have a connection to Death In June through a photograph on social media and apparently it is claimed she did some of the  photograpic work for some album covers for the same artist. Hence The Quietus then decided to do a series on the subject of I am not mistaken but of course I may very well be.

https://datacide-magazine.com/national-action-neo-nazi-terror-group-connections-to-neofolk-scene/


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: theworldisawarfilm on March 16, 2019, 08:55:39 PM
https://i1.wp.com/datacide-magazine.com/wp-content/uploads/Screen-Shot-2018-11-18-at-17.44.33.png?resize=1002%2C1024&ssl=1 (https://i1.wp.com/datacide-magazine.com/wp-content/uploads/Screen-Shot-2018-11-18-at-17.44.33.png?resize=1002%2C1024&ssl=1)

anybody know the name of this guy's PE project?

EDIT: "Other images document the couple's collection of far-right memorabilia found at their Oxfordshire home including swastika cushions and clothing, as well as a swastika-shaped pastry cutter" l o l


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on March 16, 2019, 09:32:21 PM
https://datacide-magazine.com/national-action-neo-nazi-terror-group-connections-to-neofolk-scene/

Mildly amusing. Timeline seems to span over years. For example, to establish "connection" to Allerseelen because of comment made by fan on bands facebook post, before National Action even existed where this fan could be member. It is not unexpected, but mildly funny if bands are held responsible for things such as later life decisions of ex-girlfriend of past friend?

But yes, atleast in Finland, it is a undeniable fact that many members of banned organization fairly similar to NA, has background in underground music. You can see such people in regular metal gigs, occasionally even few industrial gigs, oi gigs etc. and it's nothing utterly unusual. I could promise that if one would want to do a map of finnish underground musicians ties to known or convicted neo-nazis, everybody is literally three if not two associates distance at maximum. Some may find it amusing that some of the die-hard antifascists punks play in bands with guys who play in bands with most known nsbm/rac guys. So comparing for example article linked above seems funny, when you could make one about almost every underground band in Finland. No joke.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Duncan on March 17, 2019, 02:45:08 AM
I guess the lesson here is that everyone needs something to make themselves feel less like the blinkered, hypocritical members of contemporary society that they are.  Some people deal with that by joining NSBM/RAC bands, others by writing articles about them.  They're welcome to each other.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Bloated Slutbag on March 17, 2019, 07:51:11 AM
Honestly though this comes to me as a bit of a surprise. Skullflower is one of those artists, like say Kapotte Muziek, whose work I've managed to accumulate quite a lot of over the years without ever quite calling myself a serious fan. Never once did I get any inkling as to the implications or accusations currently being leveled. Now call me ignorant. Perhaps as a consumer of music a first requirement is to better verse myself in history, signs, symbols, the lot. Maybe I never got that de Waard's Recycled Music series was a hidden message to eco terrorist cells around the world. (edit Better add RRRon to that list, just to be safe.)

It just strikes me as... odd. I'm sure Skullflower could have played the festival and not one audience member would have come away with the suggestion of anything other than maybe they should check out some more of the project's bitchin' sounds. Like, holy shit, didn't know there was this much Skullflower in existence-

https://skullflower.bandcamp.com/

Gonna have to remedy things at some point. (If the point of generating this hoopla was to get more people, or say, more casual listeners like me, into Skullflower, well then. Job well done!)

So yeah I was, and am, still, a tad incredulous. It just didn't make no sense till someone who seems to know some of the persons involved suggested that this was mainly a financial decision. That made sense. And my first comment was riffing on that.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Cementimental on March 17, 2019, 07:03:00 PM
why

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: EXU on May 02, 2019, 01:40:20 AM
*coff*coff*Mgla*coff*coff

It's official, anyone who ever posted on SI and have a metal band... BEWARE!

I don't know how to react to this at all.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on May 02, 2019, 08:07:18 AM
*coff*coff*Mgla*coff*coff

It's official, anyone who ever posted on SI and have a metal band... BEWARE!

I don't know how to react to this at all.

Mild amusement?
Bad boys found in Black Metal. It's a news worthy story in 2019 for various reasons.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: HONOR_IS_KING! on May 03, 2019, 12:56:52 AM
*coff*coff*Mgla*coff*coff

It's official, anyone who ever posted on SI and have a metal band... BEWARE!

I don't know how to react to this at all.

Mild amusement?
Bad boys found in Black Metal. It's a news worthy story in 2019 for various reasons.

So so so so naughty I might add... https://varisverkosto.com/2019/03/the-influencers-of-the-finnish-ns-music-scene-part-3-mikko-aspa-of-northern-heritage-clandestine-blaze-vapaudenristi-sarvilevyt/


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Scat-O-Logy on May 10, 2019, 11:40:25 AM
*coff*coff*Mgla*coff*coff

It's official, anyone who ever posted on SI and have a metal band... BEWARE!

I don't know how to react to this at all.

Mild amusement?
Bad boys found in Black Metal. It's a news worthy story in 2019 for various reasons.

So so so so naughty I might add... https://varisverkosto.com/2019/03/the-influencers-of-the-finnish-ns-music-scene-part-3-mikko-aspa-of-northern-heritage-clandestine-blaze-vapaudenristi-sarvilevyt/

OMG


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on July 18, 2019, 08:53:21 AM
F&V is beginning to sink so deep underground it is barely visible, unless you *really* go look for it.
Nevertheless, this same "organization" made amusing piece about Filth & Violence / Bizarre Uproar / XE.
Unfortunately no english version. I doubt it will be done.

My favorite bits are:
1) telling how mr. BU is the key player in finnish national socialist music.
2) call for people to fight against the BU type of hatemongers to stop nazi music infiltrating mainstream music.
3) Name dropping Funeral Mongoloids and Lämpimät Juutalaiset.

And it is no joke, but unintentionally funny.
 


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: EXU on August 08, 2019, 01:06:19 AM
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/j5yekp/exclusive-dayton-shooter-was-in-a-pornogrind-band-that-released-songs-about-raping-and-killing-women (https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/j5yekp/exclusive-dayton-shooter-was-in-a-pornogrind-band-that-released-songs-about-raping-and-killing-women)

I was going to say that now this https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Grunt/3540321816 (https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Grunt/3540321816) has the edge but I remembered about Creamface.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: collapsedhole on August 08, 2019, 01:40:30 AM
too bad the other member of the band took the music down, coulda been the first pornogrind band to make some real $!


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: bitewerksMTB on August 08, 2019, 02:34:55 AM
https://www.discogs.com/Menstrual-Munchies-Preteen-Daughter-Puy-Slaughter/release/11818142


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Balor/SS1535 on August 13, 2019, 02:41:24 AM
F&V is beginning to sink so deep underground it is barely visible, unless you *really* go look for it.
Nevertheless, this same "organization" made amusing piece about Filth & Violence / Bizarre Uproar / XE.
Unfortunately no english version. I doubt it will be done.

My favorite bits are:
1) telling how mr. BU is the key player in finnish national socialist music.
2) call for people to fight against the BU type of hatemongers to stop nazi music infiltrating mainstream music.
3) Name dropping Funeral Mongoloids and Lämpimät Juutalaiset.

And it is no joke, but unintentionally funny.
 


Interesting article, but a stupid message.

Also, Google does a pretty good job of translating the article to English, for anyone interested.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on August 13, 2019, 06:30:22 AM
There is the new English translation. Like before, it is toned down slightly. Especially language and usage of the ”n word” haha..

No idea what they think article like this should result? Perhaps noise people now finally understand there is some filthy and violent releases on label called... ehm... F&V?


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: brutalist_tapes on August 16, 2019, 02:21:00 PM
it is baffling how much the cultural climate has changed suddenly, or maybe i just haven't noticed. as far as i remember, ten years go, it was accepted in sort of leftist/slightly apolitical art milieus that you could enjoy this sort of "tasteless" exploitation in music/films/etc. - in an "enlightened" aesthetic manner or whatever.. now it seems just exploring taboo subjects without directly transparent message/agenda is totally frowned upon.. could never see BU, or even XE, as political in the slightest..


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Balor/SS1535 on August 16, 2019, 05:46:01 PM
could never see BU, or even XE, as political in the slightest..

That was always my impression.  I think that noise/power electronics are often so alienating to many people that they would almost automatically be apolitical.  Unlike some NSBM or RAC, it would be difficult to build a sustainable and widely appealing political platform from it.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Harvest on August 16, 2019, 06:12:09 PM
as far as i remember, ten years go, it was accepted in sort of leftist/slightly apolitical art milieus

hahaha i am sorry but this too much. were you on the noise fanatics board at the time? they had a shit fit when rrron & mikko released Hammer of Aryan Terror and it didnt stop until this forum was created and a mass exodus happened. how old is the phrase "nazi punks fuck off?"

also, if you cant see how a band like XE calling for steel capped justice isnt political you have your head up yr ass.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 16, 2019, 06:15:18 PM
could never see BU, or even XE, as political in the slightest..

That was always my impression.  I think that noise/power electronics are often so alienating to many people that they would almost automatically be apolitical.  Unlike some NSBM or RAC, it would be difficult to build a sustainable and widely appealing political platform from it.


Just because there's no widespread known subgenres in noise/PE that include promoting political ideologies doesn't mean the entire genre is apolitical


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: PTM Jim on August 16, 2019, 06:58:28 PM
XE is sexual, not political. He has stated that, so that's what it is. Just as if an NSBM band is only such if they state they are.


I understand people not liking PE because of the subject matter. What I don't understand is why they would come into it with torches and trying to change something that has ALWAYS had X, X and X subject matter. It's like wanting to start a goregrind band, but being offended by gore.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on August 16, 2019, 07:42:45 PM
It's like wanting to start a goregrind band, but being offended by gore.

https://antifascistneofolk.com/2019/07/29/the-antifascist-neofolk-manifesto/


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 16, 2019, 08:18:51 PM
XE is sexual, not political. He has stated that, so that's what it is. Just as if an NSBM band is only such if they state they are.


I think that's a very ignorant and naive take judging people's intent only by what they say and disregarding other actions. So I can run around publically in a sailor moon costume, put out personal music covered with manga and tell you I'm not into anime and you will believe that? People lie all the time man. Of course it's sexual but looking at the lyrics, artwork, titles and denying any political influence is ridiculous.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 16, 2019, 08:27:56 PM
It's like wanting to start a goregrind band, but being offended by gore.

https://antifascistneofolk.com/2019/07/29/the-antifascist-neofolk-manifesto/


This is so cringe it's actually hard to read


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: PTM Jim on August 16, 2019, 09:58:39 PM
XE is sexual, not political. He has stated that, so that's what it is. Just as if an NSBM band is only such if they state they are.


I think that's a very ignorant and naive take judging people's intent only by what they say and disregarding other actions. So I can run around publically in a sailor moon costume, put out personal music covered with manga and tell you I'm not into anime and you will believe that? People lie all the time man. Of course it's sexual but looking at the lyrics, artwork, titles and denying any political influence is ridiculous.
I get that, completely, but the political aspect is like a vehicle. The whole point is paraphillia towards racism. Racism isn't necessarily politics also.
Plus his (or anyone's) personal preferences may or may not be reflected in the subject. There are plenty of things that are dedicated to to a certain subject, but the artist isn't into it personally.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: PTM Jim on August 16, 2019, 09:59:45 PM
It's like wanting to start a goregrind band, but being offended by gore.

https://antifascistneofolk.com/2019/07/29/the-antifascist-neofolk-manifesto/
Oof.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 16, 2019, 10:16:15 PM
There are plenty of things that are dedicated to to a certain subject, but the artist isn't into it personally.


Sure, but if you don't make the audience know that by either creating the material in an unambiguous manner or publically explain what the intention is of dealing with that subject matter, most outsiders will assume what seems obvious to them. It seems short sighted to me to put swazis on your j-cards and then be surprised when the general public assumes racism. Not saying that anyone's doing that, if an artist gives zero fucks that's fine, but that attitude only works if you give zero fucks about your music being "misunderstood" also.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on August 17, 2019, 10:55:58 AM
XE being not political, is sort of obvious, until someone concludes that it is political act to cause change in people line of thinking. For example popularize dehumanization of people. Promote idea and cultural climate that it is ok to degrade, abuse and insult - perhaps just in art, but that may or may not bleed into "real life". Question is this promoting national socialism, should be easy. Is it promoting some sort of libertarianism, is much less obvious. Artists firm attitude that it is just fetishized and sexualized things, what appeal to his aesthetics, will not remove fact that someone will not approve it "publicly" displayed.

Generally it used to be understood that a lot of industrial music may not promote anything in particular, but present things that will make listener, and possibly artists himself, to ponder questions that formerly were thought to be obvious. When organizations like Varisverkosto, which is clearly made out of legit retards, do not get this element build inside industrial culture (or art in general), their input is just the fun times of seeing cheapest provocations work like charm. First step to experience this type of art should be ability to step beyond being provoked. If you can not go pass being provoked, I doubt you could face the actual questions established about wide variety of themes that common man doesn't want to deal with, but which in reality we live in, would require to be re-evaluated.

I would think that beauty of projects like XE is, that it can be so much more, than it intends to be. Same goes for a lot of the best industrial/noise works out there.



 


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Goat93 on August 17, 2019, 11:11:11 AM
Maybe the word "provocation" is missused a lot and maybe it changed the meaning of its definition over the time but in the former definition it is a call to action. if someone is provoacted, he is advised to react to this provocation with all means nessecary. Antifa is the living reaction of provocation and the whole ideology is build up on this fact. There will never be a sense of understanding or selecting as long a provoaction is held up in front of the public work

The Ideology and the real Intention of the Artist doesn't matter. The Product is what matters and will be judged.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on August 17, 2019, 12:31:02 PM
Maybe the word "provocation" is missused a lot and maybe it changed the meaning of its definition over the time but in the former definition it is a call to action.

I don't think it is "misused". It just has different meanings depending on context:

1a : to call forth (a feeling, an action, etc.) : evoke
b : to stir up purposely
c : to provide the needed stimulus for  (will provoke a lot of discussion)
 
2a : to incite to anger   


I think most of noise/industrial content fits to any listed meanings in category 1. I don't think there is much point in attempt to incite anger and opposition, when we're talking about releases one needs to dig deep, and make conscious attempts to be exposed to. It is there rather to evoke feelings, stimulus, curiosity, new perspective, etc..  that is most of all positive if you ask me.

Attempt to incite to anger seems to be the old school of industrial when it was often performed to unprepared audience who had no idea what they were to experience. Nowadays both audience and methods are not like that anymore.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 17, 2019, 01:49:05 PM
You could argue that even in the oldschool days provocation wasn't always the intent but a byproduct of said audience being exposed to "extreme" material. It only takes someone to feel provoked or offended and provocation is created without any intent. Which is most likely exactly what happens nowadays when an outsider stumbles upon ambiguous material, "in you face" artwork or whatever.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: l.b. on August 17, 2019, 05:25:10 PM
provokatsiya is of course a cornerstone of, and holdover from, soviet-era military intelligence; pro-democratic, separatist and nationalist movements during soviet times were all labelled "provocative," and not just in the sense of eliciting emotion. to provoke people to think differently, act differently, it's like terrorism. the charge is that some intelligence service (namely CIA) is secretly promoting these events, from prague spring to tiananmen square. the fear is that small groups of dedicated individuals can inflict widespread change thru extravagant breaches of normality, like Laibach's concert and tv appearance in '83 which led to them being banned by socialist authorities of Yugoslavia.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Balor/SS1535 on August 17, 2019, 07:14:54 PM
could never see BU, or even XE, as political in the slightest..

That was always my impression.  I think that noise/power electronics are often so alienating to many people that they would almost automatically be apolitical.  Unlike some NSBM or RAC, it would be difficult to build a sustainable and widely appealing political platform from it.


Just because there's no widespread known subgenres in noise/PE that include promoting political ideologies doesn't mean the entire genre is apolitical

Let me rephrase.  You are right.  There are many ways to be political.  I am sure that there are many noise/PE musicians that send political messages through their music, and in that sense these genres can definitely be political.  They can also be political by the very fact that they represent a profound refutation of everyday ideas about music and culture.  However, I think that they are also often apolitical in another sense.  Given the harsh and transgressive nature of noise and PE, I would expect that many (perhaps even most) people would find them unappealing or downright unnerving.  In that respect I think that it would be very difficult to use them to further any popular political movement.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 17, 2019, 07:39:07 PM
could never see BU, or even XE, as political in the slightest..

That was always my impression.  I think that noise/power electronics are often so alienating to many people that they would almost automatically be apolitical.  Unlike some NSBM or RAC, it would be difficult to build a sustainable and widely appealing political platform from it.


Just because there's no widespread known subgenres in noise/PE that include promoting political ideologies doesn't mean the entire genre is apolitical

Let me rephrase.  You are right.  There are many ways to be political.  I am sure that there are many noise/PE musicians that send political messages through their music, and in that sense these genres can definitely be political.  They can also be political by the very fact that they represent a profound refutation of everyday ideas about music and culture.  However, I think that they are also often apolitical in another sense.  Given the harsh and transgressive nature of noise and PE, I would expect that many (perhaps even most) people would find them unappealing or downright unnerving.  In that respect I think that it would be very difficult to use them to further any popular political movement.


I agree for the most part, however I don't think you would catch people who view noise as unappealing for any political movement in the first place. As music gets more extreme it would make sense to me that it has the potential to attract people who share more extreme political stances with a higher percentage (since it filters out & excludes "normies" maybe?) and from my personal observation this seems to be the case anecdotally speaking. Whether fueling any political movement with the ability to be influential out of this is possible depends on the number of people and I don't see that ever happening in PE.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Duncan on August 17, 2019, 08:01:53 PM
What nobody wants to talk about is how critics, fans and even artists grossly overestimate the power, impact and success of all this 'provocation' - intended or otherwise.  It seems like much of the discourse surrounding these topics come from a massively inflated sense of how effective or believable this supposed.  Absolutely nobody seems prepared to examine this shit on it's own terms i.e. as art but with the view to critique how well all these alleged intentions and/or aesthetics actually work. 

And I get it, because the truth is a lot more painful and boring than whatever narrative either end of this pathetic, endless argument has to offer - imagine if, after a little introspection, it emerged that everything we're talking about here could be boiled down to inward facing performance of genre and subculture?  A lot of people would be lost without their hill to die on.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 17, 2019, 08:30:15 PM
Absolutely nobody seems prepared to examine this shit on it's own terms i.e. as art but with the view to critique how well all these alleged intentions and/or aesthetics actually work.  


I completely agree. Noone is prepared to examine this. Because it is impossible.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Duncan on August 17, 2019, 09:33:12 PM
Absolutely nobody seems prepared to examine this shit on it's own terms i.e. as art but with the view to critique how well all these alleged intentions and/or aesthetics actually work.  


I completely agree. Noone is prepared to examine this. Because it is impossible.

I don’t think it would be impossible, I just think it’d require too much interrogation about how surface level and insincere a lot of the music and proclaimed symbolism is than either the dedicated fan or the offended blogger is really prepared to enter into.

Everyone seems quite happy on their respective side of the fence tbh and I think those that truly have a dog in the race would secretly hate it if they had nothing to think they were kicking against.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Goat93 on August 18, 2019, 10:19:59 AM
What nobody wants to talk about is how critics, fans and even artists grossly overestimate the power, impact and success of all this 'provocation' - intended or otherwise.  It seems like much of the discourse surrounding these topics come from a massively inflated sense of how effective or believable this supposed.  Absolutely nobody seems prepared to examine this shit on it's own terms i.e. as art but with the view to critique how well all these alleged intentions and/or aesthetics actually work. 

And I get it, because the truth is a lot more painful and boring than whatever narrative either end of this pathetic, endless argument has to offer - imagine if, after a little introspection, it emerged that everything we're talking about here could be boiled down to inward facing performance of genre and subculture?  A lot of people would be lost without their hill to die on.

Actualy i try to get to the Step further. How works this Stuff for People who doesn't care about all this Shit and just react to the Stuff in the Way it differs from their Views?
Does someone really believe that the Critics will listen to explanations or will change their Offense behaviour cause of "misinterpretations"?

And the Line between Art and Seriousity is the Interesting Point for the spreading. if there is no "fear" of seriousity, nobody would care about it


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on August 19, 2019, 08:17:56 AM
I don’t think it would be impossible, I just think it’d require too much interrogation about how surface level and insincere a lot of the music and proclaimed symbolism is than either the dedicated fan or the offended blogger is really prepared to enter into.

Everyone seems quite happy on their respective side of the fence tbh and I think those that truly have a dog in the race would secretly hate it if they had nothing to think they were kicking against.

I am not very jaded about possibilities of illuminating effects of art. I don't think it needs to be something that one can prove in mathematical accuracy by academic study. I would think it is almost irrelevant whether something is surface level and insincere, when purpose of industrial, or art is not the same as educational book. If it's the sign towards doors listener (or maker) are hinted to open and take a look, it certainly can be seen as surface level by default, but also invitation further. Rest is up to the experiencers. If they expect manuals for dummies, lessons, lectures, memberships in groups that operate in politics... If they expected for example GO "remember" being in front pockets of industrial troopers, as guidebook like little red book, I think they didn't really get it?

I would think idea that there would be situation that there isn't anything one would be kicking against, refers to idea of idea of paradise or society of total equilibrium. Both impossible utopias, and movement will always create friction.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Duncan on August 19, 2019, 09:45:22 AM
I would think it is almost irrelevant whether something is surface level and insincere, when purpose of industrial, or art is not the same as educational book. If it's the sign towards doors listener (or maker) are hinted to open and take a look, it certainly can be seen as surface level by default, but also invitation further. Rest is up to the experiencers.

But it can become difficult to experience anything much further when you find out that the one pointing you to the door doesn't really have that much to say if you remove the context of 'industrial music' from their statements.  If you want to try and take what someone is saying further than the vehicle through which they're saying it then it requires you to scrutinize that vehicle and the artist's true motivations for using it.  People claiming artistic ambiguity are very often totally dependent on this never being done to their work and it works in their favour that their only real opponents are the ones who don't want to engage with it on any level but to try and have it shut down.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on August 19, 2019, 12:33:00 PM
But it can become difficult to experience anything much further when you find out that the one pointing you to the door doesn't really have that much to say if you remove the context of 'industrial music' from their statements. If you want to try and take what someone is saying further than the vehicle through which they're saying it then it requires you to scrutinize that vehicle and the artist's true motivations for using it.  People claiming artistic ambiguity are very often totally dependent on this never being done to their work and it works in their favour that their only real opponents are the ones who don't want to engage with it on any level but to try and have it shut down.

I don't know why would you want to have hang-ups about artist motivation, if it really boils down to presenting more questions than answers, where as said before, experiencer (be it audience or artists himself) is in main role? To me, it is obvious, that many of the core issues that builds any of the elements of modern society, would be ready to re-evaluation. It can be done in many forms of expression, yet topic of forum is what it is. That industrial music doesn't necessarily give you the answer straight away in form of statement, doesn't make it less. Perhaps even opposite. One may say that piece of art has failed when it doesn't, as you say, doesn't really point anywhere. Nevertheless, the same clues clearly lead people to different things. Rather than that some particular work of art would be completely hopeless, I often see certain kind of laziness. Focus is rarely trying to find more than there seemingly is, but focusing on seeing even less than there really is. That ain't the real loss for piece or art, though. There will be next years & eyes.

Certainly I agree with the last sentence. What I consider majority of reaction towards themes being. Themes that hold nearly religious status in society, and remain usually largely unchallenged or admitted to be what they really are. Someone will most often consider that been there, done that, why I should ponder over and over again issues X, Z and Y, when it's all laid out loud and clear long ago, in vast general agreement. Yet, I tend to disagree, and tend to think that this is exactly what sets apart the common folks and the others.



Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: tiny_tove on August 19, 2019, 05:18:42 PM
It's like wanting to start a goregrind band, but being offended by gore.

https://antifascistneofolk.com/2019/07/29/the-antifascist-neofolk-manifesto/

sorry THAT By Anton Shekhovtsov? LOOOL
Ok no need to read further.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: tiny_tove on August 19, 2019, 11:03:49 PM
Certainly I agree with the last sentence. What I consider majority of reaction towards themes being. Themes that hold nearly religious status in society, and remain usually largely unchallenged or admitted to be what they really are. Someone will most often consider that been there, done that, why I should ponder over and over again issues X, Z and Y, when it's all laid out loud and clear long ago, in vast general agreement. Yet, I tend to disagree, and tend to think that this is exactly what sets apart the common folks and the others.

agree as usual: 1% power electronics

that's it.

no excuses
no regrets
no explanation
no taboos

and these morons should not complain if confronted and just show guts if thy and not involve their bigger friends/goons as they often did in the id 2000s (Leipzig, Yverdon, Kassel, Frankfurr anyone?)

there cannot be dialogue with people who take things out of context and are often (not always) funded by social trusts.

on the other side, if you feel you might get hurt stop provoking and using controversial imagery, simple as that.



Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 19, 2019, 11:12:54 PM
and these morons should not complain if confronted and just show guts if thy and not involve their bigger friends/goons as they often did in the id 2000s (Leipzig, Yverdon, Kassel, Frankfurr anyone?)


Not sure what you mean, can you elaborate?


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: tiny_tove on August 19, 2019, 11:36:41 PM
just a  few attacks/gig cancelled thanks to these gentlemen. No jokes, they were triggered by people spreading shit on line via hear-a-say on non-nazi bands.

People got hurt, gear/vans got smashed/stolen, girls intimidated, and antifas who got caught cried injustice in court/hospital.

example http://switzerland.indymedia.org/fr/2008/10/63612.shtml 40 vs 8 people (3 women). lionhearts.
I was involved in a couple of occasion and it was so stupid.
I could add these people making pressure and demanding to speak with us in different occasion "in their ground", something I always refused to do since they are no authority.

Funnily enough those who questioned me directly always went away either friendly (Holland was a blast) or even more confused to say the least (Italy).

These people cannot accept the fact that truth is non-binary an is post-ideological, that the "arts" (sorry for the term) are not necessarily of civil use, and that social criticism does not necessarily have to fit an agenda.

There is people who lost jobs because of these gits, I have seen so much pressure on some guys that they were only doing their things that some marriages got broken... and I am not exaggerating.

They can do whatever they want, they can live their partisan dream, I don't care, but they can't complain if some people get pissed off if they spread LIES.



Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 20, 2019, 12:06:11 AM
Wow okay thanks for clearing that up. There's certainly cities with more leftist extremist violence than others (just as there are some more right-leaning ones), so if that's known it would make sense to involve heavy security (or even police if there's threats beforehand on forums or whatever) for anything neofolk-related or projects of other genres these extremist would react allergic to.
Normally I would always prefer reasonable discussion but honestly most of these "activists" probably don't even know what fascism means. I think they're at a point where they hate nationalism/conservatives so much that they violently go against anything once they catch a faint whiff of romanticism, paganism or historical themes of certain eras to have their own little political "revolutions" cause they're not gonna get anything done democratically. Attacking a Camerata show just further proves the stupidity of unorganized delusional tactics.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Andrew McIntosh on August 20, 2019, 03:15:52 AM
"Stab your backs when you trash our halls
Trash a bank if you've got real balls"


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: GEWALTMONOPOL on August 20, 2019, 10:09:23 PM
Are The Quietus going to publish their article on Consumer Electronics or did something scare them off? There was so much fanfare from them a few months ago. Bit off more than they could chew perhaps? Not a wise career move? Too many establishment feathers ruffled?

I guess that's the last of it from TQ then. Fucking pussies!


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: tiny_tove on August 21, 2019, 10:09:26 PM
There's certainly cities with more leftist extremist violence than others (just as there are some more right-leaning ones)
In this case this comparison can't be done.  We are specifically talking about antifas disrupting events and attacking people (and crying when somebody backfired).
You do not debate people who wants you dead even if you are not what they claim to be.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 21, 2019, 11:03:22 PM
There's certainly cities with more leftist extremist violence than others (just as there are some more right-leaning ones)
In this case this comparison can't be done.  We are specifically talking about antifas disrupting events and attacking people (and crying when somebody backfired).
You do not debate people who wants you dead even if you are not what they claim to be.


I was making a point of whether these attacks are to be expected more in certain areas with higher extremist activity to evaluate the need to organize security etc.. Trying to promote a NSBM show in Hamburg for instance would be extremely dumb - you would have to expect antifa to shut you down. Just as much as you would expect getting shut down when hosting a queer-trans-noise show in a rural saxony village. I'm sure there's been cases of right-wing extremists attacking pro-LGBT music events, leftist protests with punk concerts and the like so I'm not sure how you don't see a comparison there.
If by "wants you dead" you mean someone being in the process of attacking you of course you'll defend yourself and hopefully fuck them up, you would be stupid not to. For debating though it doesn't really matter whether someone wants you dead or not, only whether they're capable of civil and informed discourse. I only mentioned that because you said in your earlier post that you were contacted to join some discussion and I still think public debates are the best way to expose ignorant and stupid positions.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Goat93 on August 22, 2019, 10:10:35 AM
There's certainly cities with more leftist extremist violence than others (just as there are some more right-leaning ones)
In this case this comparison can't be done.  We are specifically talking about antifas disrupting events and attacking people (and crying when somebody backfired).
You do not debate people who wants you dead even if you are not what they claim to be.


I was making a point of whether these attacks are to be expected more in certain areas with higher extremist activity to evaluate the need to organize security etc.. Trying to promote a NSBM show in Hamburg for instance would be extremely dumb - you would have to expect antifa to shut you down. Just as much as you would expect getting shut down when hosting a queer-trans-noise show in a rural saxony village. I'm sure there's been cases of right-wing extremists attacking pro-LGBT music events, leftist protests with punk concerts and the like so I'm not sure how you don't see a comparison there.
If by "wants you dead" you mean someone being in the process of attacking you of course you'll defend yourself and hopefully fuck them up, you would be stupid not to. For debating though it doesn't really matter whether someone wants you dead or not, only whether they're capable of civil and informed discourse. I only mentioned that because you said in your earlier post that you were contacted to join some discussion and I still think public debates are the best way to expose ignorant and stupid positions.

In the 2000er the Focus on Neofolk and Related was more in the Way of Backstabbing and Attacking with all means. From Beating Up People (Challence of Honour and Friends), throwing Stones on Busses/Windows/Cars, Burning Cars and Blackmailing People or making Live Traits or Bomb Traits (Like in Bremen with Kirlian Camera or Blood Axis in Dresden/Heldrungen). They attack the People. Consumer, Maker and Organisators were attacked regulary. Not only Demonstrations against some Shows. It

Actualy i would disagree with the Statement about the Concerts in Hamburg or Turingia, its always a Problem of the Promotion itself. If you promote a NSBM Event in Nuclear War Now Forum and maybe RockHard, thats really dumb. If you make a Privat Concert for Guests, its a lot easier to handle it. Of course its not a 100% Safe, like with Allerseelen in Bremen. There are from Time to Time Skin Concerts in Hamburg and the Sourrounding, so nothing is impossible. Even not in the Woods of Thuringia...


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 22, 2019, 11:42:46 AM
Actualy i would disagree with the Statement about the Concerts in Hamburg or Turingia, its always a Problem of the Promotion itself. If you promote a NSBM Event in Nuclear War Now Forum and maybe RockHard, thats really dumb. If you make a Privat Concert for Guests, its a lot easier to handle it. Of course its not a 100% Safe, like with Allerseelen in Bremen. There are from Time to Time Skin Concerts in Hamburg and the Sourrounding, so nothing is impossible. Even not in the Woods of Thuringia...

Didn't say it was impossible. By adjusting the matters in which the show has to be promoted (private instead of public) you are acknowledging having to adapting the way the show is handled according to your environment (antifa presence), having awareness so to speak, which is exactly my point.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: GEWALTMONOPOL on August 22, 2019, 12:41:00 PM
Antifa needs hunting down unto the last man.

The anonymous keyboard warriors at TQ attacking people for their own personal gain should be exposed for who and what they are.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Goat93 on August 22, 2019, 11:15:15 PM
Actualy i would disagree with the Statement about the Concerts in Hamburg or Turingia, its always a Problem of the Promotion itself. If you promote a NSBM Event in Nuclear War Now Forum and maybe RockHard, thats really dumb. If you make a Privat Concert for Guests, its a lot easier to handle it. Of course its not a 100% Safe, like with Allerseelen in Bremen. There are from Time to Time Skin Concerts in Hamburg and the Sourrounding, so nothing is impossible. Even not in the Woods of Thuringia...

Didn't say it was impossible. By adjusting the matters in which the show has to be promoted (private instead of public) you are acknowledging having to adapting the way the show is handled according to your environment (antifa presence), having awareness so to speak, which is exactly my point.
i think your point is useless from begin with. if i am aware about the fact that i organise a right winged concert i use the promotion for that. if i am not aware about the fact that it could maybe under special circumstances a band thats not right winged but in the register of antifa, i can't make the promotion private cause i don't know it before.

ultha were banned from a antifa location cause they aren't antifa enough and us band inquisition where blamed several tours to be racistic neonazis and played in Markthalle Hamburg, so tell me the options i have....


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 22, 2019, 11:53:18 PM
Actualy i would disagree with the Statement about the Concerts in Hamburg or Turingia, its always a Problem of the Promotion itself. If you promote a NSBM Event in Nuclear War Now Forum and maybe RockHard, thats really dumb. If you make a Privat Concert for Guests, its a lot easier to handle it. Of course its not a 100% Safe, like with Allerseelen in Bremen. There are from Time to Time Skin Concerts in Hamburg and the Sourrounding, so nothing is impossible. Even not in the Woods of Thuringia...

Didn't say it was impossible. By adjusting the matters in which the show has to be promoted (private instead of public) you are acknowledging having to adapting the way the show is handled according to your environment (antifa presence), having awareness so to speak, which is exactly my point.
i think your point is useless from begin with. if i am aware about the fact that i organise a right winged concert i use the promotion for that. if i am not aware about the fact that it could maybe under special circumstances a band thats not right winged but in the register of antifa, i can't make the promotion private cause i don't know it before.

ultha were banned from a antifa location cause they aren't antifa enough and us band inquisition where blamed several tours to be racistic neonazis and played in Markthalle Hamburg, so tell me the options i have....


You think it's useless to have a bit of awareness whether there's an antifa mob operating in your city that might attack your venue, organizers & artists if you book certain bands that are on their radar and to adjust security measures accordingly? Because that is the point I'm making. Better to be safe and cautious to begin with then to be sorry later. Of course that doesn't mean you can foresee every move they make but if you're on the fence don't risk it and keep the show private.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Goat93 on August 23, 2019, 09:57:57 AM
Yes, cause there is not only one Antifa with a Holy Book of Rules and Laws. Its a chaotic bunch of different people and organisations under a Big Name. Like Gothic is the Name for several Subgenres. The Game always change and even if you ask your Local Groub about Black Lists its not secure and won't guarantee that another Antifa Block won't fuck your Party. Its not Antifa Hamburg only stationed in Hamburg nor are they the only operating Antifas in Hamburg. If you'r OK with Antifa Hamburg any other Group can beat you up or fuck you up. You really think that an Antifa Heldrungen or a Antifa Bucha can be a real Problem?
Most important is the Fact, that the Antifa have no relation to Subcultures and the Background, so they use to fight against everything in the end. And without consence, logic or Ideologie. And they don't fight against Organisations, they fight against People. For the right winged its pretty normal to see their Adresses and Private Fotos everywhere on Posterns, Internet and Newspapers or get beaten up by a mob, so the Antifa can't make a move here. If normal people are fucked up in this way its like a Victory for the Antifa and they don't care what they break on the Road to Victory.

i edit the text and try it in a different way. Imagine someone see's your Mailorder and say that you can't sell some Stuff cause its right winged and send you some links with Infos about it from Indymedia and Junge World. You sort it out and sell the other stuff.

Now imagine that another Person writes about Stuff also with Links from Indymedia and other Sources but the Stuff they want to forbid is actualy not even Political, so you don't agree and discuss without end about it. After you get Public attention on Indymedia any kind of warriors write to you and in the end everything in your mailorder is forbidden cause its not human and intolerant. If you don't shut down your Mailorder they will fuck you up make your adress public, you will get Police Help with sorting your Stuff and if they find out that you are in no organisation who could help you, they visit you for helping and tea...and that AFTER you cleaned your Mailorder from every maybe right winged, sexicst, racist and inhuman treadhs....


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 23, 2019, 10:19:04 AM
Yes, cause there is not only one Antifa with a Holy Book of Rules and Laws.


Not saying there is. All I'm saying is that a random attack by a few people can probably be fended off with security/self-defense weaponry. A more organized and dangerous attack would have to be coordinated somewhat publicly (forums, facebook) so to avoid or prepare for the latter (switching location, cancel, get police involved, etc.) there has to be some awareness. You seem to think that it's in no way possible to predict anything and that every show is a gamble which is fine, I just totally disagree.
The reason I'm advocating for this is that I don't want organizers and artists to be surprised by a violent shut down and antifa is not gonna just disappear any time soon. These violent attacks is a problem which calls for immediate defense strategy and I don't think sitting there with the stance of "nothing can't be done in preparation anyways, if they come, they come" is very productive.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 23, 2019, 10:23:38 AM
You edited your post and I'll have to respond to that later since it's a little different from what we were talking about originally.
I don't know if there's any specific laws against doxxing in Germany I'd have to look that up.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Goat93 on August 23, 2019, 10:29:54 AM
Yes, cause there is not only one Antifa with a Holy Book of Rules and Laws.


Not saying there is. All I'm saying is that a random attack by a few people can probably be fended off with security/self-defense weaponry. A more organized and dangerous attack would have to be coordinated somewhat publicly (forums, facebook) so to avoid or prepare for the latter (switching location, cancel, get police involved, etc.) there has to be some awareness. You seem to think that it's in no way possible to predict anything and that every show is a gamble which is fine, I just totally disagree.
The reason I'm advocating for this is that I don't want organizers and artists to be surprised by a violent shut down and antifa is not gonna just disappear any time soon. These violent attacks is a problem which calls for immediate defense strategy and I don't think sitting there with the stance of "nothing can't be done in preparation anyways, if they come, they come" is very productive.

I tried it now several times to clear it. If you are NOT aware that you will get Involvment from the Antifa, how could you prepare youself for it? Do you prepare yourself every day for an Earthquake and a Biohazard Outbreak? If you're aware of it you will build for sure Security Systems like usual. If you are NOT aware of this problem you won't do it and it will be a funny surprise.

Quote
I don't know if there's any specific laws against doxxing in Germany I'd have to look that up.

A Law won't help you. Look of any Antifa Site and you see how it works ;)


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on August 23, 2019, 11:43:46 AM
I tried it now several times to clear it. If you are NOT aware that you will get Involvment from the Antifa, how could you prepare youself for it? Do you prepare yourself every day for an Earthquake and a Biohazard Outbreak? If you're aware of it you will build for sure Security Systems like usual. If you are NOT aware of this problem you won't do it and it will be a funny surprise.

Quote
I don't know if there's any specific laws against doxxing in Germany I'd have to look that up.

A Law won't help you. Look of any Antifa Site and you see how it works ;)


Yeah I do actually, because earthquakes are really common in Germany, about as common as antifa attacking a neofolk show. Great comparison.
If you don't think increasing your awareness by screening online presence before running a show, organizing some for of security just to be safe or the law being in any way helpful ever, I don't know what to tell you.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on August 23, 2019, 04:02:05 PM
I do fully agree that one should be aware of consequences. If you think gig will attract wrong kind of attention, it is easy to not book it such place where protests may have effect. We have seen incidents where someone will book true black metal or obscene noise to "alternative space"/left leaning punk oriented bar, without realizing what it may lead to.

Yet, other side of the coin is to start to censor & beware of things you do. Like booking regular bands into secret gigs "just to be sure" there won't be any unnecessary drama. Make things look dubious with no info/no photos type of policy, even if it is 100% same crowd who visits all regular gigs and bands that are sold by all the usual distributors.

I am all in favor for things to be more underground. I do not care about the fancy clubs of the capital areas. But to be overly difficult and overtly secretive, it may not be ideal either. Mainly if you do not do it because choise, but just because you feel you "had to".



Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: luonnoton on August 23, 2019, 05:00:59 PM
I am all in favor for things to be more underground. I do not care about the fancy clubs of the capital areas. But to be overly difficult and overtly secretive, it may not be ideal either. Mainly if you do not do it because choise, but just because you feel you "had to".

Wrt the metal scene, secret gigs were mostly a thing for NSBM and "NSBM-related" bands in the past, but i recall seeing an online flyer for a Watain gig at a secret location some years back. A pretty obvious publicity stunt, seeing how the aforementioned bands would often not promote their gigs very publicly out of necessity, and a pretty nice example of how the mainstream always seems to find a way to assimilate anything that can possibly be used to sell a box set or a VIP concert ticket.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: tiny_tove on August 26, 2019, 10:01:59 PM

If by "wants you dead" you mean someone being in the process of attacking you of course you'll defend yourself and hopefully fuck them up, you would be stupid not to. For debating though it doesn't really matter whether someone wants you dead or not, only whether they're capable of civil and informed discourse. I only mentioned that because you said in your earlier post that you were contacted to join some discussion and I still think public debates are the best way to expose ignorant and stupid positions.

debate is used not to clarify but to collect sentences to make up evidence, as it happened in a couple of Italian forums. so there can be no debate.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Bloated Slutbag on August 27, 2019, 04:14:06 PM
What nobody wants to talk about is how critics, fans and even artists grossly overestimate the power, impact and success of all this 'provocation' - intended or otherwise.

You sure about that? What I gathered was that several contributors to this thread were more or less incredulous that the critics would even have bothered in the first place- for the precisely the reasons you've outlined.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Duncan on August 27, 2019, 07:41:12 PM

You sure about that?

Yes.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Bloated Slutbag on August 28, 2019, 03:28:19 AM
I suppose it's fair enough to reflect that no one seems to be saying anything about something that largely goes without saying. I mean, 50,000 JTCH fans can't be wrong, can they?


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Grübelschlinge on October 18, 2019, 07:15:30 PM
PriceleSS:
https://nsbmboneheads.wordpress.com/


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: aububs on October 18, 2019, 09:38:58 PM
is yosuke konishi really a wealthy biotech chemist? wow


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FallOfNature on October 21, 2019, 05:38:59 AM
I think my favourite part of that article was a bands link to nazism through taking their band name from a Nifelheim song, and Nifelheim are mates with Watain, who are nazis because a band member did a salute in a photo x amount of years ago I guess.

They couldn’t of written a funnier piece if they tried.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Andrew McIntosh on October 21, 2019, 08:56:36 AM
Whole thing struck me as more stupid than funny.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: A-Z on October 22, 2019, 05:36:16 PM
ever since I read this article the NWN forum has been showing me this:
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /forum/ on this server.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Balor/SS1535 on October 22, 2019, 08:07:08 PM
ever since I read this article the NWN forum has been showing me this:
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /forum/ on this server.


I get the same message.  I read, however, that it is possible that the forum was just shut down for the duration of the Never Surrender fest.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Balor/SS1535 on October 24, 2019, 09:04:16 PM
It gets worse:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1117144446577995776.html


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on October 24, 2019, 09:31:22 PM
It gets worse:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1117144446577995776.html


Thank you. I learned a new word today: "Femoid"


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: endors_toi on October 28, 2019, 12:21:23 PM
I get the same "Forbidden" message for about a week now, too.
The website itself works, but when trying to access the forums section this message always appears.
What gives? Sorry for being uninformed.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Cementimental on October 28, 2019, 03:50:14 PM

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1117144446577995776.html

(https://pics.me.me/the-virgin-real-life-varg-thulean-perspectives-the-chad-fat-44272210.png)

:D wonderful stuff


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Dekay71 on October 30, 2019, 10:27:49 AM
What’s happened to BU / F&V noticed website down and removed from bampcamp??


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on October 30, 2019, 10:42:45 AM
What’s happened to BU / F&V

BU & F&V is fine. Nothing to do with "witch hunts".
They are back in the old school. Write and order. Regular customers should have the email.
For those who need the releases, plenty of distributors out there too.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Dekay71 on October 30, 2019, 11:15:48 AM
Good news then had read the articles that BU had linked in the website and assumed add pressure caused them to wind up public presence for the time being till all these SJW’s were bothering someone else with their garbage.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: GEWALTMONOPOL on October 30, 2019, 02:02:29 PM
Still no follow up to the anonymous Skullflower assassination from The Quietus. I guess enough important people leaned on them so they just packed it in then. So much for all the big words about fighting their perceived evils of fascism in music. Career first, eh?


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: brutalist_tapes on October 30, 2019, 02:16:55 PM
yeah, it will be be fun to see where those holier than thou types are when nihilism and fascist chic gets fashionable once again,  ha. in the music scene i come from, ten years ago it was trendy to use faux right wing imagery for shock, etc. - basically the (admittedly) tired punk/industrial tactics once again. but the funny thing is that all these people turn to humanism and correct values when that becomes fashionable... there is a guy here who used to play absurd covers with his oh so edgy metal punk band years ago, then earlier this year he was a part of the antifa mob that attacked hendrik möbus at a festival here... quite ironic, hehe.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Gefühlloser on October 31, 2019, 08:47:42 AM
This kind of crap is rampant all over the place these days. Something both hilarious, and horribly stupid I found recently was this:

https://antifascistneofolk.com

Some fat, pudgy, ugly dorknifigus hipster putting words into the mouths of all the Neofolk musicians he doesn't like while making the main focus of every article about how anti-fascist everyone he likes is. I found a video of him on Youtube, and he's absolutely the most lame person I've ever seen in my life. As if Neofolk were some actually unified scene or something to begin with, and not separate people expressing separate things, lol. People like this need to just be spit roasted over the campfire and then ate, and nobody remembers anything the said the next day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJsp5dANkzY&t=274s

I've been accused by locals, and hipsters of all kinds of being racist myself. Uninspired people that have nothing whatsoever to talk about, so they make shit bigger than it is, while in reality they are incompetent in any meaningful discussion about the world.



Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on October 31, 2019, 05:20:08 PM
Some fat, pudgy, ugly dorknifigus hipster (...) he's absolutely the most lame person I've ever seen in my life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJsp5dANkzY&t=274s


Where in the video does he talk about Neofolk?
Also curious which specific points of his you disagree with?
Maybe you could link to an article instead of the whole page.
Otherwise nice ad-homs.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Gefühlloser on October 31, 2019, 06:20:24 PM
Some fat, pudgy, ugly dorknifigus hipster (...) he's absolutely the most lame person I've ever seen in my life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJsp5dANkzY&t=274s


Where in the video does he talk about Neofolk?
Also curious which specific points of his you disagree with?
Maybe you could link to an article instead of the whole page.
Otherwise nice ad-homs.

The video wasn't about Neofolk, I posted just to show the guy. Apparently he's connected with some Antifa groups in the Northwest USA or something. Look at the articles on the website, a great deal of them start with some title about "this band stands against fascism!" which isn't what I'm interested in when approaching some Neofolk band. He's not someone actually involved in Neofolk himself, the ways in which he's involved seem rather dubious. He won't interview any group that he deems fascist, nor try to understand why they might use symbolism in their art. He just needs to have his ANTIFASCIST movement against any fascism!!! In reality, most Neofolk fans don't want anything to have to do with that guy, and they think his involvement is dishonest at best. Personally I'm interested in a vast range of Neofolk, and I'd rather listen to people creating it themselves talk, not this guy that latched onto it for whatever reason. I think anyone really interested in Neofolk would just write about Neofolk, not create some need for Antifa vs Fa.

Edit: He even came out with an Antifascist Neofolk manifesto, which just tells you right there that he's full of shit.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: deutscheasphalt on October 31, 2019, 06:45:37 PM
Some fat, pudgy, ugly dorknifigus hipster (...) he's absolutely the most lame person I've ever seen in my life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJsp5dANkzY&t=274s


Where in the video does he talk about Neofolk?
Also curious which specific points of his you disagree with?
Maybe you could link to an article instead of the whole page.
Otherwise nice ad-homs.

The video wasn't about Neofolk, I posted just to show the guy. Apparently he's connected with some Antifa groups in the Northwest USA or something. Look at the articles on the website, a great deal of them start with some title about "this band stands against fascism!" which isn't what I'm interested in when approaching some Neofolk band. He's not someone actually involved in Neofolk himself, the ways in which he's involved seem rather dubious. He won't interview any group that he deems fascist, nor try to understand why they might use symbolism in their art. He just needs to have his ANTIFASCIST movement against any fascism!!! In reality, most Neofolk fans don't want anything to have to do with that guy, and they think his involvement is dishonest at best. Personally I'm interested in a vast range of Neofolk, and I'd rather listen to people creating it themselves talk, not this guy that latched onto it for whatever reason. I think anyone really interested in Neofolk would just write about Neofolk, not create some need for Antifa vs Fa.

Edit: He even came out with an Antifascist Neofolk manifesto, which just tells you right there that he's full of shit.


oh okay, I thought so


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: GEWALTMONOPOL on October 31, 2019, 08:29:58 PM
Antifascism is the last refuge of the untalented!


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: Kayandah on November 01, 2019, 09:16:30 AM
It gets worse:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1117144446577995776.html

That contains more 2+2=5 than I thought possible.

It's easy to laugh it off, but their level of harassment and self-empowerment is disturbing.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: yosef666 on November 02, 2019, 06:05:16 AM
This kind of crap is rampant all over the place these days. Something both hilarious, and horribly stupid I found recently was this:

https://antifascistneofolk.com
Funny stuff. A lot of the acts he loves so dearly are certainly less "pure" than he would like; for instsnce, Aerial Ruin and Sangre de Muerdago are two acts he profiles glowingly. Both played the wonderful Stella Natura fest in 2012, alongside such awful, terrible, no good acts as Changes, Blood Axis, Pyhä Kuolema and Waldteufel, all perpetual bogeymen of the obsessive ultraleft. There was no conflict. It's almost as if it was all about the music. Crazy, I know.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: fetch the rope on November 03, 2019, 09:43:15 AM
I get the same "Forbidden" message for about a week now, too.
The website itself works, but when trying to access the forums section this message always appears.
What gives? Sorry for being uninformed.

All of you could just email Yosuke and ask directly. He has stated that the forum will be back but he hasn't found time to take care of it for now.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: yosef666 on November 03, 2019, 10:31:27 PM
I get the same "Forbidden" message for about a week now, too.
The website itself works, but when trying to access the forums section this message always appears.
What gives? Sorry for being uninformed.

All of you could just email Yosuke and ask directly. He has stated that the forum will be back but he hasn't found time to take care of it for now.
I believe that NWN forum is not coming back as per my most recent communications with Yosuke this weekend. Very unfortunate if so.


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: aububs on November 04, 2019, 01:19:19 AM
must be hard to multi-task being a wealthy biotech chemist and running nwn

something had to give

you hate to see it


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: A-Z on November 04, 2019, 03:29:21 PM
if nwn doesn't come back are there any decent alternatives?


Title: Re: Witch Hunt Season is Open (Skullflower recent controversy)
Post by: brutalist_tapes on November 04, 2019, 04:11:36 PM
if nwn doesn't come back are there any decent alternatives?

i would like to know this too. s-i is great for industrial, but i don't know of many similar metal boards to nwn!