Special Interest

GENERAL VISUAL ART / LITERATURE DISCUSSION => GENERAL VISUAL ART / LITERATURE DISCUSSION => Topic started by: FreakAnimalFinland on February 28, 2010, 01:19:11 PM



Title: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on February 28, 2010, 01:19:11 PM
Not interested to read about the superman & donald duck. Keep that stuff away from the topic, thanks..

When I started my so called "underground career", it was pretty much through the comics. In finland the boom of independent zine culture walked quite a lot hand in hand with self made/self published mini comics. It was alternative outlet for creativity what walked hand in hand with a lot of punk/experimental/metal and whatever. You could go to local library and find pretty rough materials there on comic department. During the years many up's & down's been there, but the zine culture changed to direction where many guys started own publishing company, who's material is technically as high quality as anything done by major publishers.
Instead of old times, a lot of people actually focus on getting their stuff to worldwide people.

In Finland, there is little crossover with experimental sound & comic arts. As example one could say Roope Eronen, which is utmost obscure naivistic creator. If one can mention people like Mike Diana or Henry Darger with their amusing looking things, Roope Eronen is not as harsh what comes to sexual or violent content, but his technique and stories (or lack of it) are surreal and absurd. Most often they seem like childrens comics gone all wrong.

I know this thing is nowadays probably exclusively associated with "hipster noise", where the stoner doodles and stuff like that are perhaps more rule than exception. And at the same time I feel disturbed by very same "who care", "lets do some garbage" mentality what is in noise-drone-jams and aimless doodles, but I admit that there are some pretty good materials as well. When I saw the art exhibition related to NFF couple years ago, it felt like brutal let down. Perhaps couple items worth to see, but others were pretty much the culmination of all what I think is bad in doodle-arts, sketchbook pages on display and all that.


Roope Eronen:
(http://lambiek.net/artists/e/eronen_roope/eronen_roope_jape_2.jpg)
(http://lambiek.net/artists/e/eronen_roope/eronen_roope_jape_comic4.jpg)

I've seen him in noise performance. This guy have collaborated with Avarus and Pylon, which some people probably know? Lal lal lal label etc. who had festival in helsinki end of 2009.



Quite recent reading was Amanda Vähämäki "pullapelto" and maybe worth to mention, since it's been translated to english, french and I think also Swedish? Book explains in liner notes that this was part of "alice experiment", meant to explore the borders between text and pictures, dreams and reality, childhood and adulthood, language and time. Which is, like many may have noticed in my past texts, one of high interests of mine. The dominating influence of Lewis Carroll, is simply something that remains interesting for years and years. At the same time when you look at the book, you can't get much more stereotypical female "emo comics" approach, but in other hand it doesn't really matter. When you look beyond the doodled messy pencil images, many of them just constitute already individually as piece of art. Don't know how the other versions are, but Daada (recently stopped comic published in Lahti/finland) did their best to make it as artbook, rather than your typical comicbook.

Quote
The Bun Field
Amanda Vähämäki

March 2009This collection of five short comics stories by new talent Amanda V�h�m�ki is drawn together with an intriguing disjointed rhythm and delicious pencil-smudged style, and infused with a sense of abbreviated adolescence and a kind of grey sky banality. On the surface the stories are characterized by a surreal ebb-and-flow, but each also possesses a deep sense of foreboding and hurt, and maintains a biting sense of humor.

The Bun Field is V�h�m�ki�s first graphic novel, which has been published in several languages. In this story, a young girl dreams of a dinosaur eating Donald Duck; wakes to find a bald, hulking stranger sharing her breakfast; leaves to take a car trip with a bear; falls and breaks a tooth, to have it replaced by an impatient dentist�from his dog�s mouth no less; and pays back the favor by plowing a field of buns. Likewise, young people and anthropomorphic animals commingle in dreamy landscapes throughout the other tales collected in this edition, performing mundane tasks that are skewed with an absurd and fantastic edge. What do you get when you mix fish guts, jungle gyms, stamps, barmaids, soda pop and burning cities?

V�h�m�ki�s unique ideas are equally matched by her tactile drawings, creating a palpable world that is fresh and compelling. The Bun Field and Other Stories comprises an introduction to the work of a new artist not to be missed.

Paperback, 8 x 8 inches, 96 pages, b/w.

(http://www.kutikuti.com/publication_images/amanda_pullapelto_cover_big.jpg)

Perhaps neither of these 2 artists are something the most relevant, but just something I happened to read couple days ago, so can work as start for topic...


Title: Re: underground / art / avatgarde comics
Post by: Andrew McIntosh on February 28, 2010, 01:25:26 PM
AARGH!
This has reminded me...I used to have one of the best, in fact only, books on underground Australian comics. "Down Underground Comics". A wonderful collection of truly filthy, scatological, political, turgid comic art from the source. I lent it to a friend...and now it's lost forever. It was a one-off and I doubt I'll ever see it again.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: heretogo on February 28, 2010, 08:35:12 PM
I've seen him in noise performance. This guy have collaborated with Avarus and Pylon, which some people probably know? Lal lal lal label etc. who had festival in helsinki end of 2009.

Roope plays also in Maniacs Dream who are pretty good at confusing/annoying people. The live performances are usually pretty nice, ranging from the very simple & mind-boggling to total "amateur-improv" where the limits of anti-musicianship are tested... The records I've heard are ok but not essential.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on March 03, 2010, 10:49:30 AM
Angry Youth Comics. Just read the 2nd collection book of this XXX Scumbag party II. Johnny Ryan goes pretty much always there, where the level is the lowest gutter humor. Anything that seems utterly ridiculous and offensive at the same time, that's where he goes. Most of the stories are absurd, in ways like someone gets annoyed by crying baby. Kicks it out from window, baby has a boner which sticks in one of main characters ear. When baby is hanging from his ear from the boner, he gets invitation for comedy awards, as candidate of "best baby-boner in ear gag" -series. Doesn't win it, gets so mad that baby melts from heat coming from his brain. Some douchebag collects the liquid baby and uses it as fuel of his giant sexrobot which sole aim is to go and infect STD to moon. Robot flies over to space and moon fucks it and get clamps. And everybody celebrates in earth this task and heroic role of liquid baby.
In similar ways, stories don't make much sense, but they tend to be just psychelic chaos of offenses. Book is also filled with lots of one picture gags, where the humor is in level of old man separating boys from fist fight and saying "Boys boys, stop fighting! AIDS is a disease what kills both, faggots and niggers". Or guy walking on street with t-shirt saying "my parents went to concentration camp and all I got was this t-shirt".
One pretty rough story is where guy shows another, how to get rid of shitty diapers. He sligs them up to the sky, and the turd and diaper happens to hit jesus in the face who is just flying to save black people from all the persecution to live with him on paradice. The guys put blame of shooting turds with bunch of crack smoking black thugs and jesus flies back to heavens asking them to "tell the black people when you see'em that they really fucking blew it", hehe..
Or comic about "diarrheah faggots". Game box comes with 4 faggots, who you force feed spoiled food, and winner is who gets his faggot first to fart out some sloppy diarrhea.
You won't have shortage of fucking kids, niggers, faggots, violence, rape, violations, baby boners,... etc.  It says "for mature audiences only", but perhaps more accurate would immature audiences? It's quite curious that such big publisher as Fantagraphics has done this. One could assume just the language alone would make protesters walk in front of their head office?
People who like stuff such a Mike Diana, probably get something out of this. Style is more perhaps "classic humor comics" style, with pretty smooth pen works. Not such clumsy/avantgardist like M.Diana for example. It's no way nice or "talented" really. Just based on cheapest moronic humor with relatively successful drawing that is most of all about the characters and not that much about backgrounds.

Not from a book, but his site with some recent strips:
(http://www.johnnyr.com/images/blecky2010-02-04.gif)
(http://www.johnnyr.com/images/blecky2009-01-15.gif)


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Cementimental on March 14, 2010, 09:41:29 PM
My friends Famicon/Bonehouse Books are doing some really interesting stuff with nice production values/printing methods: http://famiconexpress.co.uk/


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Plague Haus on March 16, 2010, 08:45:41 PM
I'm out of touch for the past few years, but used to be a huge fan of underground comics. I still have a pretty extensive collection of late 80's and most of the 90's stuff. Chester Brown's "Ed The Happy Clown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_the_Happy_Clown)" will always be one of my favorites. Worth tracking down, for sure.


(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8E_sRQA8u6w/SPo552VbbFI/AAAAAAAAAHw/TR5FimuPSvM/s1600/reaganpenis.jpg)


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on March 16, 2010, 09:41:50 PM
That has been published in Finland in 1990 I guess (called: Ed Iloinen Klovni). Indeed nice comicbook with pretty bizarre story. Long out of print and I think already kind of collectible release. I got the finnish version and some of the small zines how it was originally published, but I think not the complete set..
My focus has always been that most of all Finnish independent publishing and the from foreign, mostly the obscurities and extremes or exceptionally good ones.

Some good news is that soon should be coming new collection of Kalervo Palsa.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: ARKHE on March 18, 2010, 01:18:51 PM
Don't know how well-known Joakim Pirinen (Swede of Finnish descent) is abroad, but he's very respected in Sweden since the 80's. Often very dark, paranoid, labyrinthine and surreal stories set in made-up Stockholm suburbias & similar.

(http://hd.se/multimedia/dynamic/00399/Pirinen_399263d.jpg)
(http://gfx.aftonbladet-cdn.se/multimedia/dynamic/00471/pirinen440_471716a.jpg)


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on March 18, 2010, 03:43:33 PM
All material translated in Finnish and published very early. "Breakthrough" Socker-Conny(1985) as Sokeri-Sakari (1987) but already year before was that earlier album. I'd dare to say it was big influence also in Finnish comics. Got most if not all his works.  Early stuff was reprinted in 2002/2003 so this stuff very easy to get in Finland.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Ritual on March 18, 2010, 04:33:03 PM
Pirinen is great! Another of my favourite Swedish cartoonist is Max Andersson. I don't know if any of his stuff has been properly translated and released outside of Sweden, but I found this translated piece online:

(http://www.maxandersson.com/img/comics/Johnny-Gun-serie.gif)


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on March 18, 2010, 05:23:02 PM
Pixy was translated in Finnish and published by Suuri Kurpitsa in mid 90's. Pretty good. I'm quite sure his works appeared in Suuri Kurpitsa anthologies. That was good time, when several open submissions regularly published (4 times a year) magazines/anthologies were in operation. Some of my early stuff was in their publication too.
I think any relevant alternative Swedish name, and that's known (/translated) into Finnish. These days, everybody says that in Finland the comic scene and the reality of publishing is better than in Sweden. Anyone visiting Turku or Helsinki can find pretty nice shops dedicated to alternative comics.

EDIT: and USA version of Pixy and his other works in USA by Fantagraphics, so should be available just about everywhere.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Strömkarlen on March 19, 2010, 10:11:53 AM
Comic scene in Sweden suck. During the heyday in the Eighties it was really good with guys like Pirinen and Max Andersson but today it is just emochicks (of both sexes) with no drawing skills whatsoever that's retelling their miserable lives.

I wish that Dan Park would do some comics....


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on March 19, 2010, 03:33:29 PM
Comic scene in Sweden suck. During the heyday in the Eighties it was really good with guys like Pirinen and Max Andersson but today it is just emochicks (of both sexes) with no drawing skills whatsoever that's retelling their miserable lives.

Well, this is ongoing trend everywhere, isn't it? I do appreciate characters like mr. Crumb, who can put some life into autobiography style comics. But people, with no life, nothing happening, doing comics about that, is about as bad as "reality tv" or other such phenomena.
Another guy, who's comics are somewhere between totally retarded waste of time and works of genious, is Joe Matt. his "Peepshow" comics collected as books, can be pretty good. It's all about his miserable relationships, his crappy career as living out of comics (drawing comics for living about drawing comics for living.. duh!) etc. Often the neurotic and idiotic content makes you want to meet this guy and slap him in the face. But in times of stories of compulsive masturbation and porn collecting and various other "embarressing" subjects, he can be pretty entertaining. Fuck me, when I bought one of his "buddies" celebrated Top Shelf comic.. hmm. Jeffrey Brown "Clumsy" (Suom: Haparointia). It basically underlines everything what sucks ass in emogirl doodle comics. I mean, if you have a cock, please just have some dignity man. Existence of this type of people, simply drives grown man into hostile bigot. Faces should be smashed, if ever met such person in real life.
Those who don't know what I'm talking about, check http://www.topshelfcomix.com/catalog/clumsy/180 and click the cover to preview some pages.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Strömkarlen on March 19, 2010, 04:29:22 PM
Yeah, it have become a common trend but when it becomes the style I just get out. There are always people who manage to take everyday things and make them into great art. Crumb for one, American Splendor is another example but the things is that a lot of people look at it and think "I could that" and start to make their very boring stuff. A bit like HNW actually... It seems easy but is hard as hell to do really good.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: THE RITA HN on March 22, 2010, 07:55:17 AM
my good friend robin bougie and his many projects:
http://www.cinemasewer.com/


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: moozz on March 23, 2010, 12:19:38 PM
my good friend robin bougie and his many projects:
http://www.cinemasewer.com/

I've enjoyed his work (both research and art) in Cinema Sewer but didn't get too excited about Sleazy Slice #1 (which is just comics). The collection of Cinema Sewer book dedication drawings called Dear Mr Bougie has some great dirty art though!


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: tiny_tove on March 23, 2010, 02:23:21 PM
sounds very interesting I have ordered the two books with reviews of extreme stuff and will probably order the magazine


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: moozz on March 23, 2010, 03:22:06 PM
sounds very interesting I have ordered the two books with reviews of extreme stuff and will probably order the magazine

You mean the Cinema Sewer books? They're much more than just reviews. There are articles, interviews, comics and more. And yes, it is always extreme, sleazy, hilarious, ridiculous or just plain weird. And it's all hand written. If you like alternative cinema these books (and the magazines) are highly recommended.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Strömkarlen on March 23, 2010, 04:53:58 PM
sounds very interesting I have ordered the two books with reviews of extreme stuff and will probably order the magazine

You mean the Cinema Sewer books? They're much more than just reviews. There are articles, interviews, comics and more. And yes, it is always extreme, sleazy, hilarious, ridiculous or just plain weird. And it's all hand written. If you like alternative cinema these books (and the magazines) are highly recommended.

Second. After reading my first copy of the Cinema Sewer I got so excited that I sent a dog fuck super-8 loop to Bougie just to show my appreciation. Great -zine!


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on March 23, 2010, 07:49:05 PM
I think it was this guy who did the drawing for the cancelled RRR box set which was supposed to have Grunt, The Rita, Dilloway, Cherry Point, .. haters.. and more? 6 bands, one side each. It was charicatyre featuring all the guys involved, with something what referred to sound sources they were using. I believe The Rita "Snorkel" was originally for this set? Sounds of diving under water. There was sci-fi movie sounds.. car crashes, etc.. and certain artist making noise out of screams of females, and in drawing was holding blood oozing cut-off female breast in hand..   I hope I would have saved the cover pre-view.

I do have issue of two of cinema sewer, but should get more.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: tiny_tove on March 23, 2010, 08:15:53 PM

You mean the Cinema Sewer books? They're much more than just reviews. There are articles, interviews, comics and more. And yes, it is always extreme, sleazy, hilarious, ridiculous or just plain weird. And it's all hand written. If you like alternative cinema these books (and the magazines) are highly recommended.

sounds even better
play sent them today ;)


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: narcolepsia on March 23, 2010, 08:41:46 PM
cinema sewer is great ! probably the best cinema mag around..

will be distributing some of the issues very soon

support this guy !


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: moozz on March 23, 2010, 11:09:21 PM

You mean the Cinema Sewer books? They're much more than just reviews. There are articles, interviews, comics and more. And yes, it is always extreme, sleazy, hilarious, ridiculous or just plain weird. And it's all hand written. If you like alternative cinema these books (and the magazines) are highly recommended.

sounds even better
play sent them today ;)

You should have ordered from the man himself! A bit more expensive but those personal dedication drawings he does on the first page are great. For me he did two nuns giving head to a nazi officer :)


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: tiny_tove on March 24, 2010, 12:44:56 AM
I will with the magazines :)


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Unheard on April 14, 2010, 01:41:09 PM
SS Sunda
Dast
Baldazzini


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: tisbor on April 15, 2010, 01:54:42 AM
Quote
Baldazzini

yes , his trannies are great !


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on April 15, 2010, 11:01:47 PM
I have intended to write something about him in "Bishop / Benson / Stanton / Willie / etc " -topic. I should have maybe 4-5 comicbooks of him. I think the curious thing is, that there isn't really any men in most of his works. "women" are trannies, men are pigs. Female figures always come with cocks, male figures always have heads of pigs intead of human head.
His style always reminded me of something, but can't focus my mind what exactly it is. I've never seen his non-shemale works. Does he do something else?


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: pitchphase on April 15, 2010, 11:59:08 PM
i like Baldazzini's style, the clean black lines (no gray-scale shading) - reminds me of another italian, Magnus- or also maybe Michael Manning- the stark b&w ink work is very appropriate for drawings of leather & bondage gear


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Unheard on April 19, 2010, 05:41:01 PM
I have intended to write something about him in "Bishop / Benson / Stanton / Willie / etc " -topic. I should have maybe 4-5 comicbooks of him. I think the curious thing is, that there isn't really any men in most of his works. "women" are trannies, men are pigs. Female figures always come with cocks, male figures always have heads of pigs intead of human head.
His style always reminded me of something, but can't focus my mind what exactly it is. I've never seen his non-shemale works. Does he do something else?

well, his trannies-related stories are mainly tied to the existence of the italian erotic magazine BLUE, but he's also a photographer and painter and does some Bondage stuff and non-erotic drawings (the last one focusing on WWII after 1943 in Italy). For Coniglio Editore (his main publisher and owner of Blue magazine) he did publish a collection, called Sexy Rama, of italian erotic magazines (1960-1980)

he also collaborated with Franco Saudelli

http://www.baldazzini.it/projects/bizbook02.htm


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: halthan on April 25, 2010, 09:11:27 AM
I'm out of touch for the past few years, but used to be a huge fan of underground comics. I still have a pretty extensive collection of late 80's and most of the 90's stuff. Chester Brown's "Ed The Happy Clown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_the_Happy_Clown)" will always be one of my favorites. Worth tracking down, for sure.


(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8E_sRQA8u6w/SPo552VbbFI/AAAAAAAAAHw/TR5FimuPSvM/s1600/reaganpenis.jpg)

It was also translated in finnish. One of my faves


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Salamanauhat on September 13, 2010, 02:59:51 PM
The X-magazine comics by the Finnish underground legend Läjä Äijälä (Terveet Kädet etc.) have been released in book format. In Finnish language...

(http://www.huudahuuda.com/sample_pages/x_04.gif)

http://www.huudahuuda.com/


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on September 13, 2010, 06:04:29 PM
I was considering it. It's black "leather" hardcover with red foil print on front. All glossy offset print. Bondage/sm/rubber/kekkonen/betty page/elvis/etc etc.. But fortunately I do have all the original X magazines (as well as all Sarjari and all Kannus magazines which frequently included Läjä's works), so it seems also kind of pointless to buy such re-issue when originals are already in shelves. 20€ wasn't too bad for it, though.

Latest brilliant purchases would be for example Jyrki Nissinen with his new hardcover album. Totally absurd. Last weekend comic festival included plenty of alternative / art comics (or should we say, that dominates the field in finland!). Even silk screened art book of EVIL MOISTURE was available in some stall.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Ernpe on October 15, 2010, 09:50:24 PM
I was considering it. It's black "leather" hardcover with red foil print on front. All glossy offset print. Bondage/sm/rubber/kekkonen/betty page/elvis/etc etc.. But fortunately I do have all the original X magazines (as well as all Sarjari and all Kannus magazines which frequently included Läjä's works), so it seems also kind of pointless to buy such re-issue when originals are already in shelves. 20€ wasn't too bad for it, though.

The recent one has also a long story intended to be in X Special (which never materialised), nothing states if it has been printed elsewhere. Anyway, paid 25 euro for this, worth the money. Attention & money has been put into the book.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on October 16, 2010, 08:55:54 AM
Recent UG comic reading is for example:
Yale university press An Anthology of graphic fiction, cartoons and true stories vol. 2.
400 pages, hardcover book, that is available relatively decent price. If you are lazy and bored to hunt down every album and comic book around, anthologies are the best way to get to know. This series, being also very good for "basic education", since it includes many of the mandatory legends.

Rober Crumb, Art Spiegelman, Jess, Harvey Kurtzman, Milt Gross, Kaz, Gilbert Hernandez, Megan Kelso, JEssica abel, Joe Matt, Joe Sacco, Seth, Jaime Hernandez, David Heatley,  Chris Ware, and so on and on. Dozens and dozens more. Some full color, some b/w. Cover price 16£ or 28$ for thing like this, pretty decent.


For Finns, one could recommend Fok-it and new Jyrki Nissinen album. Both neat hardcover comicbooks of clumsy stuff of boy'ish humore. Very good!


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on June 19, 2011, 04:48:08 PM
For Finns only... unfortunately:
Kundipimu #6. Much better than issues #4 and 5, I think! They are getting better. Full color utmost obscenities and bad taste. Happy Horse publication, you may have tough time finding it, but Sarvilevyt has couple..

Pitkis. Tribute comic book for Pitkämies comic shop, which was alternative comic shop in Helsinki, which stopped due financial troubles. And in deed, while alternative comics are celebrated and high profile and also often receiving quite significant funds for being what they are, there hardly is financial reality that allows shops/distributors to operate. I visited shop several times and bought many things, but to me, it appeared from first time I walked in, that this ain't going to last. Pitkis is ok. But it also reveals the too tightly inner-circle type comic scene of the country. And that interest is pretty much that. Often crying about business failures and lack of support of buying audience seems as if I would open shop dedicated to noise exclusively and then cry about lack of sales. Some things just are for very narrow and small audience. And the "hits" that actually get attention of bigger crowd, are very few and very far away from each other. This is the reality. I'm glad people try, but I think realism often doesn't get accepted by misunderstood genius.

Taas Sieltä Jostakin. Works of Ville Tiihonen. I'm quite glad, this type of politically incorrect strip comics or cartoons are getting popular. I mean, stuff like this was popular in underground for long, but nowadays foreign stuff like Hugleikur Dagsson has been pretty much "mainstream" bestsellers.  Those who don't know: http://www.dagsson.com/
Tiihonen approaches from much less common angle. His drawings are awfully clumsy, and the "jokes", sometimes they are easy, but sometimes just amusing due way they are presented. Bizarre, ugly, strange, often not very "correct". This book is second one of the 3 similar ones.
(http://www.sarjakuvakauppa.fi/kauppa/images/uploads/taassielta.jpeg)



Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on June 14, 2012, 08:27:13 AM
Kyky Ahonen "stadipunkin kuulustelupöytäkirja"
Based mostly on anekdotes about Pete Malmi - singer of supposedly first finnish punk band Briard. (hear sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmmnqowRov4 ). Andy McCoy, guitarist of band, went and formed Hanoi Rocks after this. It's quite amusing real life documents of one to few pages incidents. Drawing quality varies from almost photo-realistic to utter goofball newspaper humor comic style. It lacks uniform style as well as real talent on composition of pages. Kyky is veteran of punk / self financed comics, but this appears like really more of just sketch/diary type of comic with no real effort on visuals. For guys only into comics, probably does very little. For guys into some of these rock heroes and legends, will work out. Been published also in Germany, so I assume its german version?

Borgtron #13
6 years of Brogtron! Fuck, time goes fast! Couple latest issues have been better again. Absurd and utterly weird humor with dirty twist. All pages include english subtitles in bottom of pages.

Bendik Kaltenborn: Ei mitään Muistikuvaa (english: I don't remember)
Norwegian comics? Don't know much about it. With help of Nordic minister fund or whatever, Huuda Huuda financed this. Finnish version with english subtitles printed on bottom of each page. Very good and bizarre comic of business meeting going wrong. Drinks, whores, violence, accidents, but not in sleazy way - but in very absurd and funny ways.

(http://2012.tamperekuplii.fi/images/julkistukset/herrasmiessafari.jpg)

Florent Ruppert & Jérôme mulot "Herrasmiessafari" (original "Safari Monseigneur")
This was the break-through album on these guys in France. L'Association must be there quite big profile name in alternative comics. Style of drawing is kind of sketch-like. Very thin lines of sharp pen giving quite vague forms, but also very stylish. This is already 4th publication in Finland, which therefore appeared in non-chronological order, and most certainly this is not the best, but still intense. The way they put together fragile story, weird solutions of page compositions and how story jumps forward.. just unique. Add intense dialogue, absurdity, violence, obscenities and again - not in sleaze and obvious way, but very clever and fresh. Despite one could recommend some of others (like Apinatarha!) more, this is essential nevertheless. In France, I've been told, these guys are celebrated heroes. In english speaking world... who knows? I didn't see any links. Luckily I live in country with such a enthusiastic comic activists like mr. Tommi Musturi who keeps pushing his high quality publishing company year after year with remarkable publications despite running at loss...


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: online prowler on July 05, 2012, 07:48:35 PM
PUSHWAGNER - SOFT CITY

Epic comic by Norwegian artist Hariton Pushwagner (Terje Brofos) made in the late '60s, early '70s. Lost for decades, released in 2008 on No comprendo press http://www.nocomprendopress.com/ (http://www.nocomprendopress.com/). Depicts a near dystopian future, where every action and behavior is strictly under state and consumerism's control. No free will, no life, puppets for the machine. A true gem.

(http://bibpop.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/pushwagner.jpg)

(http://www.stroom.nl/gfx/uploads/_DSC0018_0280%20web.jpg)

http://www.pushwagner.no/ (http://www.pushwagner.no/)







Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Black_Angkar on July 05, 2012, 08:14:07 PM
Comic scene in Sweden suck. During the heyday in the Eighties it was really good with guys like Pirinen and Max Andersson but today it is just emochicks (of both sexes) with no drawing skills whatsoever that's retelling their miserable lives.

I wish that Dan Park would do some comics....

I agree with the general mediocrity of Swedish comics, it is the same as with swedish art. "Cool", clean (thematically at least) and generally boring personal stories (where personal equals pointless). I DO think that a couple female creators today have the right absurdist skills and a wicked sarcastic humour. I can imagine the PC under/overtones might put some people of, but I think that both Nina Hemmingsson and Sara Granér are both really good artwise, as well as funny on a level I can relate to. But as for the rest...

Dan Park would be interesting as a comic character in himself

Otherwise, growing up in sweden during the Epix-years was great. Pox, Epix, Tung Metall (roughly swedish version of Tung Metall).

 I think S Clay Wilson, Jaime Hernandez, and Foerster are my absolute favourites, with Muñoz&Sampayo, Liberatore, Nazario (the FANTASTIC Anarcoma, Copi's daughter etc), Daniel Clowes and Chester Brown as other stand outs . One could of course discuss the differences between american and european comics for ages, and there are some easily detected ones...


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Black_Angkar on July 05, 2012, 08:24:12 PM
By the way, has anyone here read the Waters of Deadmoon series? A quite marvellous, stylistically superb dystopian sci-fistory by Adamov and Cothias. In a barren Paris, where food and water is short a bizarre degenerate princely court spends the end of days with debauchery. Cannibalism, decadene, sex, mutations and violence in a truly hopeless setting. This is one of the best sci-fi comics I've read. They made another one "La Emperatriz Roja", which I don't own and only encountered in spanish, not sure if ean english version exists. There exists one called "Dayak" as well which ran in american Heavy Metral in the nineties I think.

Also: "I wanna be your dog" by Ho che anderson is great, porn and perversion as a storytelling vehicle that works really well.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on September 25, 2012, 06:31:42 PM
The absolute best purchases of 2012 alternative comics:
(http://www.huudahuuda.com/kauppa/files/Vacuum_Horror____4f38d87664f5e.jpg)

http://www.aaronshunga.com/

I don't know is it is conscious or not, but strong influence/feel of Shintaro Kago.
Weird absurd story of Abraham Lincoln starting apocalypse by announcing day free of penalties for any criminal actions. Instantly entire population appears to plan for child rape and murder. Vacuum cleaners from outer-space are approaching to annihilate mankind. And all sorts of weirdness.

Finnish language version is easily available over here.  I think the other version is English / portuguese. bi-lingual version. Should be worth grabbing if you see somewhere.

(http://ashunga.tumblr.com/image/9385169331)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ezh0Hzh_0xs/T9tHwkqzxMI/AAAAAAAAGoU/GOH96rF9lAc/s1600/vacuum_horror56.jpg)


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: hsv on September 27, 2012, 09:02:53 PM
This spring at the Sthlm Small Press Expo I picked up a copy of this:
http://www.decadencecomics.com/Home/olympic-games
+ some of their other small zines. All nicely drawn & printed but still firmly DIY publications (very nice choice of paper, some were even proper bound books rather than stapled zines). The ones I got where kinda artsy sci-fi-action with a philosophical undertone, reminiscent of european 80's underground. It reminds me a bit of some Enki Bilal comics or other things that could be found in POX, Epix etc. The comics didn't rock my world but it was nice to see ambitious, stylish and serious comics with their own style, amid the hell of crappy manga, ripoffs and wannabes that populate 85% of the market...


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Cementimental on October 10, 2012, 08:42:11 PM
Met those guys at a zine fair, nice and unique stuff indeed. Just picked up the latest issue of their 'Island 3" the other day.

My friends' collective Famicon are a pretty odd mix of different styles of kind of heta-uma/doodley sci-fi stuff and cute/ugly styles, I really like it anyway:
http://famiconexpress.co.uk/
http://www.pictureboxinc.com/topics/famicon


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: hsv on October 11, 2012, 09:56:27 AM
Looks interesting... for the moment the "alternative comics" scene here is mostly dominated by political essays/rants (and the occasional black and white self-biographic/sociorelastic venture, or artsy, "silent" comics), which gets me longing for actual stories. I like comics that are clearly underground/experimental but still not afraid of a bit of excitement, even action, so I think I will pick up that "Police worx" book.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Black_Angkar on October 11, 2012, 05:38:55 PM
Looks interesting... for the moment the "alternative comics" scene here is mostly dominated by political essays/rants (and the occasional black and white self-biographic/sociorelastic venture, or artsy, "silent" comics), which gets me longing for actual stories. I like comics that are clearly underground/experimental but still not afraid of a bit of excitement, even action, so I think I will pick up that "Police worx" book.

it's a typical thing for swedish comics, the fear of working with genres besides the mentioned political rants, sarcasm and poorly drawn social realism/autobiography (often of the lives of highly uninteresting people). Or pure shit like Rocky. Sweden has been a comics wasteland with a few water holes since the scandalous defeat of Epix. This country is so extremely sensitive to liberal ironism and a total fucking middle class bias on everything, and so only few people seems interested in doing comics in a way that treats the artform as a medium actually appropriate for the telling of stories from every field. Assholes.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on October 11, 2012, 06:36:03 PM
I have read Finnish comic journalism mostly refer this "new wave of Sweden" most of all in positive light, heh... I guess in some cases its up to debate whether some of works fall under "comics" or perhaps something else. But I guess it's feminist women with autobiographical books consisting drawings & text what rules?

Latest what I bought, not really that "underground", but perhaps fall under art comics:

Moebius & Jodorowsky "The Eyes Of the cat"
Re-issue (obviously), including decent foreword. Like Moebius said, story didn't feel like worth of full album, but Jodorowsky insisted one image per page, and story is very simple, yet quite morbid. Couple short lines of text on few pages, mostly just visual journey through this morbid incident.

(http://billchance.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/cat2.jpg)


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Black_Angkar on October 11, 2012, 11:24:17 PM
Well I DO like a lot of the first real wave of feminist artists, as I do some of the absurdist wordless comics, and some biography, but there is this tendency towards establishing this genres, making them "cool" and acceptable and still not acknowledging comics for what it is and always has been. There are of course good stuff out there, depending on ones tastes, but Sweden is still nowhere near breaking the taboos that still makes great fantastic comics art derided or ignored. There has been attempts made obviously but they have mostly been quite poor as there is NO standard for comics in either the american or franco-european tradition. I was reading an example of some feminist comics artist this morning and thought that this is really losing its appeal no matter what you think of feminism. There is no point in applauding dull formulaic stuff which kicks in doors already open or tackles subjects with far less finesse and wit than others have done before. I would prefer a climate that was open for everything, ranging from the most extreme underground to a general acceptance of comic books/graphic novels as a true format (OK I must admit it ain't as bad as when I was a teenager, people do not think you're a retard for reading Sandman but that is mostly in regards  to foreign comics as the swedish production IS mired in the examples mentioned).


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: hsv on October 12, 2012, 09:01:24 PM
There is no point in applauding dull formulaic stuff which kicks in doors already open or tackles subjects with far less finesse and wit than others have done before. I would prefer a climate that was open for everything, ranging from the most extreme underground to a general acceptance of comic books/graphic novels as a true format

My thoughts exactly... it's getting older by the day. Even if I don't appreciate for example Liv Strömquist, I can respect her for having her own way of doing comics, a respect that doesn't really extend to a lot of her followers who are doing the same thing, but worse. And there are a few storytellers but no real innovators, mostly ripoffs/careerists who try to "do it by the book" (with this and that pen, software etc) but don't really have any new ideas.
I can definitely like even the much hated black & white sociorealism, when it's done good, but with the trends and herd mentality, you'll get one nugget and 85% shit... maybe if there was a more wide range of styles and genres, people would be able to find something they're good at instead of imitating and sucking at it.
Too bad I'm such a lousy illustrator, else I would be working in comics for sure.

By the way, to keep things on topic: I just read the new reiusse of Ed the happy clown, from Drawn & Quarterly. I guess the main addition in this one is Brown's notes for the text, which give some interesting perspectives into the artistic process. But mostly a good reason to re-read an excellent comic.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Black_Angkar on October 13, 2012, 03:14:23 AM
There is no point in applauding dull formulaic stuff which kicks in doors already open or tackles subjects with far less finesse and wit than others have done before. I would prefer a climate that was open for everything, ranging from the most extreme underground to a general acceptance of comic books/graphic novels as a true format

My thoughts exactly... it's getting older by the day. Even if I don't appreciate for example Liv Strömquist, I can respect her for having her own way of doing comics, a respect that doesn't really extend to a lot of her followers who are doing the same thing, but worse. And there are a few storytellers but no real innovators, mostly ripoffs/careerists who try to "do it by the book" (with this and that pen, software etc) but don't really have any new ideas.
I can definitely like even the much hated black & white sociorealism, when it's done good, but with the trends and herd mentality, you'll get one nugget and 85% shit... maybe if there was a more wide range of styles and genres, people would be able to find something they're good at instead of imitating and sucking at it.
Too bad I'm such a lousy illustrator, else I would be working in comics for sure.

By the way, to keep things on topic: I just read the new reiusse of Ed the happy clown, from Drawn & Quarterly. I guess the main addition in this one is Brown's notes for the text, which give some interesting perspectives into the artistic process. But mostly a good reason to re-read an excellent comic.

Luckily basically ALL EPIX comics besides a few are issueas are available at 2nd hand store. I re-buy misplaced issues veery now and then basically cause I misplaced the originals. That was fucking amazing, reading S Clay Wilson and all the europeans (from manara to the radicals) and knowing that you werewn't really suposed to read this but they let you because they didn't have a clue (my parents took away my turtkles but never POX). As for the "feminist wave" I think MOST of the early ones work perfectly fine without the "Feminist tag". Nina HEmmingson is just pure angst humor, which is delightful. Also Sara Granér delivers sarcasm and unbelievable amounts of sarcasm, them I love. LIV I can see why she's become feminist icon, anbd I'm not so fond of her, but I still think she fits her own style. This also goes for Nanna Johansson. But after that, its just tedious boring shit. The stuff I've sennanyway,.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on October 14, 2012, 01:24:03 PM
I think new Ed The Happy Clown print will be soon in Finnish? At least I had such recollection someone said there is one coming and now would be about the best time to sell the old pressings for "collectors prices" before new improves/updated edition is done. The new hardcover on D&Q includes... was it c. 3 or 5 more pages compared to the late 80's Finnish edition. So story doesn't end where it "originally" ended, but few more pages + extensive liner-notes.

From Chester Brown, I think even more recommended "Paying for it". See Tommy C mention in other comic topic:
http://www.special-interests.net/forum/index.php?topic=1277.msg10668#msg10668  (middle of page)
I bought it instantly after seeing recommendation, and since then I know at least 2 finns who bought it due my recommendation and everybody concluded it kills.


I think Finnish comics is currently living strange times. Or it has been for a long. Publishing is focused around couple of festivals and "serious collectors" who'd like to keep up with what comes out, may have to face quiet moments with very little happening, and then suddenly Helsinki comic fest and booom !!! 150 new titles out.  Just about every underground/alternative publisher aims for the fest, and mailorder & distribution channels besides that appears to be quite minimal. In past when you published item, you could trust you may break even with selling at festival. Now when everybody does the same, I guess it doesn't work for anyone anymore. Most relevant alternative publishers has mentioned to me that every attempt to do anything with comics is hopeless. Financially that is. Media is drumming about huge success and internationally acknowledged artists, but everybody struggles in edge of being bankrupt, hah... Reminds a lot about noise!

For people interested in Finnish alternative comics, I think the best ways to get known them would be:

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-aF0wXLR1k53dpr0JC3dUVCNYL21BMWrB4ebs5o2yvAXe8GguyM6hD1RJpw)

and this year:
http://www.huudahuuda.com/kauppa/?87,finnish-comics-annual-2012

HUGE comic anthologies. I don't have 2012 book, since I was slightly annoyed that 2011 book appeared to be most of all translated works what I had already seen in Finnish. Not exclusive stuff. In other hand, you'd expect this to be right way - to collect best works and translate them.. but then question remains why even sell it to Finns?


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: hsv on October 16, 2012, 10:43:25 PM
I heard the ending was one way in the original issues of Yummy Fur and the first collection, and different in all subsequent collections. The ending in this book is the same as the Swedish edition of the book that came out in 98 or something. The new D&Q edition contains a new short comic that hasn't got anything to do with the Ed storyline but is apparently a "cover" of an old horror comic that inspired Brown.
Really wanna read Paying for it, I noticed the quite good & extensive comics library of Stockholm has a copy.

I found a copy of an old underground magazine called SATANS ANAL BULLWHIP, from 1991... crude and stupid redneck-punk stories, some parts are pretty good, some not so. There are some scans here, I can scan the whole thing if anyone would be interested.
http://kickinthefaceofaghost.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-testosterone-laden-tales-of-lonely.html


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Black_Angkar on October 18, 2012, 09:38:14 PM
last time I wrote it seems I was farely drunk...

Ed the Happy Clown ios gret. I can't recall if there ever was a swedish album version


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: Human Larvae on October 21, 2012, 11:43:31 AM
I'm only into a certain kind of comic, that is the more abstract kind. I was in a the comic book store called "Grober Unfug" yesterday and saw version of Hansel and Gretel, wordless narration, which I would like to purchase soon

(http://www.atractivoquenobello.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Blog-Hansel-y-Gretel.gif)


I am also fond of the works of Thomas Ott. Again wordless stories with underlying black humor, beautifully drawn with great detail. Well drawn is the wrong word. I think he explained works with double layered black&white paper and scratches off the black layer. Worth getting

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/zGWPNtXh8hsn15d6NzMKh0ECo1_400.jpg)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/-ahBM6l_SNj0/SjKN_at4x_I/AAAAAAAAC4w/VtxLn6VY3eQ/ott-deathandoldwoman.jpg)



Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: redswordwhiteplough on November 25, 2012, 08:25:21 PM
Maaginen Matka by Sami Hynninen of Reverend Bizarre. Sex, satanism, violence, religion, death. Not sure how underground or rare this is, but I do own a copy.

(http://www.kirjasampo.fi/sites/default/files/styles/medium/public/kulsa_cache/images/5/9/8/saha/kirjasampo/0_7254524085566371418.jpg)


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: hsv on November 26, 2012, 12:22:45 PM
It's hard to tell which topic one should post in as there are two for comics... guess the other one could be used for Superman & Donald Duck as Mikko specified this wasn't for that. But lately I've been reading a lot of Grant Morrisons comics and he's certainly avantgarde (as in forerunner) in the field of hero/adventure comics, especially his excellent Superman and X-men storylines. I guess his own scripts (Invisibles, The Filth, Flex Mentallo) are generally more avantgarde/weird, but I like it when he's staying in the more traditional genre while really pushing the boundaries of what can be done with it. Also Frank Quitely is probably one of my favorite "traditional" comics artist ever.
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m96kxmOeH71rcmoc1o3_500.png)

I read Paying For It as well, I'm not overwhelmed but it was pretty good. In the beginning of the book it's pretty exciting, the discussions with friends, probing the world of prostitution etc. but after a while it becomes more counting out all the different girls he sees, "this one is attractive", "this one is ugly" etc. On one hand it's a strength that the book is so thorough and not overly dramatized, but at some times it gets a bit monotonous.
It's also strange how Brown really doesn't want to portray it as a sad/negative story, because I think it's hard not to take it like that... not regarding the issue of prostitution so much as the storytelling etc. He writes in the notes that he's unhappy with the title because it implies he's "paying for it" in a more metaphorical way (bearing the consequences of a mistake), but the monotony of the storytelling, the bleak minimalism of the art and the way he never depicts the faces of the girls (which he only seems to do to protect their identities) gives the whole story an undertone of melancholy for me. I like the style of the book but I feel like it conveys kind of the opposite message that Brown intends... reading the notes I also get the feeling that Brown is mildly autistic or something.
The design of the book is great, as always with Drawn & Quarterly, I totally prefer the thick book in A5 (?) size as opposed to a double size, half as thick book.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: tiny_tove on November 26, 2012, 12:36:22 PM
I know and appreciate Mattotti.
He used to work with fanzines of my area back in the 70's.

Jerry Kramsky lives near my hometown, quite a character, pretty silent and grumpy, sax player and does a completely normal job.
Nice guy anyway.



Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: redswordwhiteplough on November 27, 2012, 07:02:01 PM
Has anyone read John Hinckleton's 100 Months? It's fantastic.

(http://alternativemagazine.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/mara1r.jpg?w=500&h=391)

(http://alternativemagazine.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/darcagisr.jpg?w=500&h=392)

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxalvqsJhH1r9ny72o1_r1_500.jpg)


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: FreakAnimalFinland on May 29, 2014, 08:15:14 AM
DADDYS GIRL by Debbie Drechser
Kind of "traditional" female comics. Arty clumsy drawing, reporting some problematic issues of their past. Have had this for years, but just was browsing shelves what short & easy to read in middle of more "challenging" big books. Abusive father. Failing relationships. Misery and sadness. Well, it's kind of well done and if you get something out of "female comics", then very recommended.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2110/2346596532_33585967d3.jpg)

SIELUN KOOSTUMUS by Hannele Richert
I guess only available in Finnish. Finnish female art comics, collection of her short works from period of 10 years. I would guess published in various small press zines, gathered to hardcover book by Zum Teufel in 2010. Pretty good stuff, with same reservations as above.


Title: Re: underground / art / avantgarde comics
Post by: hsv on May 29, 2014, 01:14:28 PM
Sorry for the self-promotion but I guess it's more relevant to post about this here than in the New Releases section, since it's not a musical release;
I published a small zine recently, my first ever serious attempt at doing comics. It's got nothing to do with noise/industrial, but maybe it will appeal to some people here. It's a bit related to what I discussed with Black_Angkar up there a year and a half ago: not autobiography, not political rants, just fictional stories that (hopefully) carry a meaning in and of themselves.

5€ PPD in Europe, more info here:
http://bengthenrikleonard.tumblr.com/post/86201831949/henrik-soderstrom-souvenirs-of-kashmir-my